anyone think that there would be any possibility for the balkan states to form a single political entity (republic, united kingdom, w/e) sometime before 1900? ive had thoughts in the past that maybe they could join to form a united front against turkey in the period of around the 1820s when serbia and greece both start fighting for independence and could perhaps be joined by other balkan countries (or eventually reel them into their union)
WI: Balkan Union
- Thread starter oshron
- Start date
There was a plan to include Bulgaria into Yugoslavia, and iirc there were preliminary talks on the inclusion of Albania and Greece in a sort of trans-Balkan custom or trade union. The schematics for a political union are going to be very tricky though. I imagine any such union, with a post-1900s PoD is going to have to deal with a fair bit of instability to say the least.
yeah, i know of the balkans reputation for hating each other (but my knowledge of that region in the modern period is VERY limited), i was just wondering if it could be plausible for them to form some kind of union or at least an alliance against turkey, which would be their major opponent probably at least until after WWI.
that reminds me, what do you think would happen when WWI rolls around and serbia assassinates ferdinand? would the other balkan countries jump to the aid of serbia or just say "i ain't touchin' that" and back away?
that reminds me, what do you think would happen when WWI rolls around and serbia assassinates ferdinand? would the other balkan countries jump to the aid of serbia or just say "i ain't touchin' that" and back away?
Here we go, thanks wiki.
Apologies to those who can't read Cyrillic, apparently wiki doesn't have an English version. They're just the names of the countries anyway.
The feasibility of such a structure is debatable, but to be honest it's not completely inconceivable that this sort of federation ends up formed. I'm thinking more of a post-1900s scenario.
Apologies to those who can't read Cyrillic, apparently wiki doesn't have an English version. They're just the names of the countries anyway.
The feasibility of such a structure is debatable, but to be honest it's not completely inconceivable that this sort of federation ends up formed. I'm thinking more of a post-1900s scenario.
wwalter
I am not very well acquainted with the Balkans in the 19th Century, but my guess would be that it is unlikely that any indigenous Republic or Kingdom could spring up in the 19th century. The revolts against the Ottoman Empire that broke out throughout the century were driven by nationalists who wanted their own nations, not federal states. While the "new" Balkan states such as Bulgaria, Greece and Serbia could cooperate for a time against their common enemy, the Turks, once that threat was lifted they were soon fighting each other. Unification of the Balkans under Russian, or even Austrian hegemony would be far more likely.
That being said, if Karageorge of Serbia had managed to hold on to power during the Napoleonic era, he may have been able to unite the various Balkan principalities under the banner of Orthodox Christianity vs. the Turks. If I recall Karageorge was affiliated with the Hetairia, a Greek Secret Society/Independence movement. Such a kingdom could have united most of the Slavic Christians against the common foe, and at this stage in history might been more appealing that the other nascent nationalist movements that became more popular during the 19th century. So if a strong and stable state developed under Karageorge starting in 1805, and if this state remained viable, or the Turkish threat severe enough, such a union may have endured into the 20th century. A
That being said, if Karageorge of Serbia had managed to hold on to power during the Napoleonic era, he may have been able to unite the various Balkan principalities under the banner of Orthodox Christianity vs. the Turks. If I recall Karageorge was affiliated with the Hetairia, a Greek Secret Society/Independence movement. Such a kingdom could have united most of the Slavic Christians against the common foe, and at this stage in history might been more appealing that the other nascent nationalist movements that became more popular during the 19th century. So if a strong and stable state developed under Karageorge starting in 1805, and if this state remained viable, or the Turkish threat severe enough, such a union may have endured into the 20th century. A
Well... Bulgaria, Greece and Serbia fought against the Ottomans together in the First Balkan War. That didn't really last though, because in the Second Balkan War Greece and Serbia ganged up on Bulgaria as I recall. There are just too many conflicting claims for such a thing to work without some form of human rights violations.
The union of Yugoslavia and Bulgaria very nearly happened, I think it was only on Stalin's intervention that it didn't come about. Greece communists were also very enthusiastic about the idea of uniting the Balkans. I'm not really sure if Romania was ever interested: I think in general, politics there were more concerned with Western integration and the acquisition of Romanian territories.
With a post-1900s PoD, you could at least see a Yugoslav union including Bulgaria and a very sympathetic Greek state (and if it ever 'goes red' perhaps they form some sort of Balkan Federation). The viability of such a state however is a whole other story
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With a post-1900s PoD, you could at least see a Yugoslav union including Bulgaria and a very sympathetic Greek state (and if it ever 'goes red' perhaps they form some sort of Balkan Federation). The viability of such a state however is a whole other story
.Russia isn't the only country with influence in the Balkans; Austria-Hungary had Serbia under its thumb for the longest of times. Bulgaria and Romania had conflicting claims-- Russia favored Bulgaria over Romania until the Bulgarians finally showed some nerve, but the Tsar couldn't very well woo both countries at the same time. Greece was an on-again-off-again interest of the Brits.
The other problem is that the Balkans don't exist in a vacuum-- a Russian-influenced Balkan federation would majorly fuck up the balance of power in Europe, and would cause a nasty russophobe reaction in London, Berlin, Vienna, etc.
Were all these countries genuinely interested in federation, or forming some sort of [MY COUNTRY HERE]-led unitary state, like how the Kingdom of Yugoslavia was focused on the Serbs?The union of Yugoslavia and Bulgaria very nearly happened, I think it was only on Stalin's intervention that it didn't come about. Greece communists were also very enthusiastic about the idea of uniting the Balkans. I'm not really sure if Romania was ever interested: I think in general, politics there were more concerned with Western integration and the acquisition of Romanian territories.
With a post-1900s PoD, you could at least see a Yugoslav union including Bulgaria and a very sympathetic Greek state (and if it ever 'goes red' perhaps they form some sort of Balkan Federation). The viability of such a state however is a whole other story
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And would be against Russia's interests for that reason, meaning they might be against one forming. Perhaps go farther back and envision an Ottoman Empire where the decay starts earlier or one that made only limited gains in the Balkans and was weaker from the start.
Did somebody say Balkan Union?
Yes, they did, and yes, there is one in your TL.
archaeogeek
Banned
Yes but that's a given, a misplaced fart in the balkans can cause the death of millions.
(More seriously: not a chance, Romania very quickly disaligned itself from Russia, as did Bulgaria, and "wanting independence from the Ottomans" won't change the fact that they were all ready to kill each other for Macedonia)
What about Austria and Russia winning the Austro-Turkish War, 1737-1739?
Instead of giving up northern Serbia, Austria might conquer Nic, Kosovo and Northern Albania, and might continue expansion thereafter. In 1914, the Balkans are partitioned between Russia, Austria and a smaller Greece. Then in a war reformed-among-federalist-lines Austria defeats Russia and incorporates the remaining Balkans into the great Austrian empire.
Instead of giving up northern Serbia, Austria might conquer Nic, Kosovo and Northern Albania, and might continue expansion thereafter. In 1914, the Balkans are partitioned between Russia, Austria and a smaller Greece. Then in a war reformed-among-federalist-lines Austria defeats Russia and incorporates the remaining Balkans into the great Austrian empire.
WarBastard
Banned
Bulgaria nearly did join Yugoslavia, and Albania was very nearly forced to join it (it would have been better if it had), but at no point was there any suggestion Romania would.
for those whose language skills are even worse than mine.
The labels for the colours are:
-Great(?er?) Yugoslavia
-Balkan Federation
-??? variant of the Balkan Federation
As Midas says, the countries are just the names of the countries.