WI:Aztec Restoration

So a few months ago I asked how would the first Mexican empire look if they had gotten their European Prince. Since then I found out that several Spanish Noble houses are the direct descendents of the last Aztec Emperor, Montezuma II. They include the Dukes of Moctezuma de Tultengo ,Dukes of Ahumada, Counts of Miravalle, Duke of Abrantes, Condes de la Enjarada, Condes de Alba de Yeltes, and Dukes of Atrisco. So is there a way, with a POD after Mexican independence, for one of these Noble lines to become the Imperial House of Mexico?
 

Deleted member 14881

maybe if Maximilliam refuses to be Emperor of Mexico and no one else was willing to do it maybe they could be Emperors of Mexico?
 
maybe if Maximilliam refuses to be Emperor of Mexico and no one else was willing to do it maybe they could be Emperors of Mexico?

I was thinking more along the lines of one of the Nobles being invited to take the Crown after Fernando VII forbid any European royalty from doing the same. However, it would be a big risk, considering their lands are in Spain.
 
And why would they want to?

People will do alot of things for a Crown. But thinking about it, it might be more likely for the Aztec descendents to get the throne during the Second Mexican Empire. Perhaps Spain is more involved in the intervention and suggest of of their Aztec nobles for the throne.
 
People will do alot of things for a Crown. But thinking about it, it might be more likely for the Aztec descendents to get the throne during the Second Mexican Empire. Perhaps Spain is more involved in the intervention and suggest of of their Aztec nobles for the throne.

A crown in the days in which being a king meant something, yes. In the 19th century, not so much.

And why would anyone particularly suggest someone descended from Montezuma?
 
A crown in the days in which being a king meant something, yes. In the 19th century, not so much.

And why would anyone particularly suggest someone descended from Montezuma?

True, true. As for why, well the descendents of Montezuma would be the heirs of the Aztecs, the last rulers of Mexico (or at least part of Mexico) from before the Spanish. Perhaps these nobles could be a compromise. Their not European royalty,but their the closest thing to a native royal family that the Mexicans would have.
 
True, true. As for why, well the descendents of Montezuma would be the heirs of the Aztecs, the last rulers of Mexico (or at least part of Mexico) from before the Spanish. Perhaps these nobles could be a compromise. Their not European royalty,but their the closest thing to a native royal family that the Mexicans would have.

Being the heirs to the Aztecs is important to the Spanish (and Mexicans) why? A compromise how?

Frankly this idea looks like "Hey I think this would be cool" but not something where there's any particular reason why the people involved would care, let alone regard it as a positive.
 
Being the heirs to the Aztecs is important to the Spanish (and Mexicans) why? A compromise how?

Frankly this idea looks like "Hey I think this would be cool" but not something where there's any particular reason why the people involved would care, let alone regard it as a positive.

Thats why I suggested a restoration During the Second Mexican Empire. If Spain was more involved in the Mexican Intervention, they could suggest a Spanish noble, perhaps the Moctezuma de Tultengo, as Emperor. After all, Queen Isabella didn't have any close male relatives that she trusted enough to be made a ruler and she only had one son, so it's feasible to think that Isabella would at least consider placing one of her nobles on the Mexican Throne. Especially if she wants to put Mexico in Spanish orbit, rather then French. Not to mention the odd coincidence that the Duke of Montezuma was elevated from Count to Duke a year after the Second Empire began, so maybe she was already considering trying something in OTL, who knows.
 
Thats why I suggested a restoration During the Second Mexican Empire. If Spain was more involved in the Mexican Intervention, they could suggest a Spanish noble, perhaps the Moctezuma de Tultengo, as Emperor. After all, Queen Isabella didn't have any close male relatives that she trusted enough to be made a ruler and she only had one son, so it's feasible to think that Isabella would at least consider placing one of her nobles on the Mexican Throne. Especially if she wants to put Mexico in Spanish orbit, rather then French. Not to mention the odd coincidence that the Duke of Montezuma was elevated from Count to Duke a year after the Second Empire began, so maybe she was already considering trying something in OTL, who knows.

But why de Tultengo?

Really, this isn't giving any reason why an "Aztec restoration" would be appealing to Spain.
 
I was thinking more along the lines of one of the Nobles being invited to take the Crown after Fernando VII forbid any European royalty from doing the same. However, it would be a big risk, considering their lands are in Spain.

I think the PoD would have to be that Fernando does not take so hard a line. Those Spanish noble houses have no reason at all to give it all up, go against their own king and country, and travel to a new country with an uncertain future. So either you have an eccentric member of one of the houses go on a Mexican adventure, or you have the Spanish king take a less stubborn attitude toward a parliament that truly did want to stay loyal to the monarchy. Maybe Fernando, embarassed to accept a crown from a government he opposed, and the Parliament can agree to offer the crown to one of the ducal families as a face-saving measure. But that seems out of character for Fernando (and even more so for his brother, who would be king if you went with a simple "Fernando dies early" PoD).

Short version: I can't see any reason Mexico would want one of the Dukes to come, or any reason the Dukes would want to go, or any reason Spain would welcome one of the Dukes going. I'm sorry, because the idea is quite interesting. :(

By the 2nd Empire, it's even less realistic. Unlike the first time around, by the 1860s there's no viable movement in Mexico that wants a Spanish monarch.
 
You would really need a Moctezuma descendant to be at the forefront of the independence struggle in the first place. From there, you have a logical platform to build such a case on.

If this hypothetical guy is an independence hero along Iturbide lines, and looks, sounds and behaves like a criollo Spaniard, then the fact that he happens to be descended from the last native emperor would be simply another feather in his cap. It might even secure him a level of popular mestizo and indian support that your average criollo might not be able to tap into.

The problem is that I'm pretty sure most of these royal Aztec descendants stay in Spain, not Mexico. Their fortunes are quite definitively hitched to those of the Borbouns. And however tempting a regal or imperial title might be, it's a sore thing to risk your lands, titles and dignities in one country for the sake of a speculative crown in another.

The further away you get from independence, the less likely any such scenario gets. By the time of the Second Empire, the idea of monarchy in Mexico was really on its last legs. You'd really need a POD around the time of the First Empire.
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
This would be like the House of Savoy proclaiming a "Roman restoration." The Aztecs are gone; the precolonial world they inhabited is vanished forever. The people in Mexico are no longer Aztecs (they never uniformly were, anyways) but a different people altogether, children and victims of the European rape of the New World who had to find their own destiny. In short, the Aztecs didn't beat Spain, Mexicans did. Heirs to the Aztecs is one thing, but "the Aztecs reborn" is quite another.
 
This would be like the House of Savoy proclaiming a "Roman restoration." The Aztecs are gone; the precolonial world they inhabited is vanished forever. The people in Mexico are no longer Aztecs (they never uniformly were, anyways) but a different people altogether, children and victims of the European rape of the New World who had to find their own destiny. In short, the Aztecs didn't beat Spain, Mexicans did. Heirs to the Aztecs is one thing, but "the Aztecs reborn" is quite another.

And the Nahua (the only arguable "Aztecs in the modern day") wouldn't care, in reality these guys are about as Aztec as any other Criollo emperor and most of them would face just as much oppression and poverty under this emperor as under Spain.
 
This would be like the House of Savoy proclaiming a "Roman restoration." The Aztecs are gone; the precolonial world they inhabited is vanished forever. The people in Mexico are no longer Aztecs (they never uniformly were, anyways) but a different people altogether, children and victims of the European rape of the New World who had to find their own destiny. In short, the Aztecs didn't beat Spain, Mexicans did. Heirs to the Aztecs is one thing, but "the Aztecs reborn" is quite another.

Ironically, the House of Savoy more or less did IOTL.
 
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