WI: Austrian unified German Empire in the 19th Century

If Austria, rather than Prussia, had been the power that had unified the German states in the 19th Century and how would the Austrians have done things differently?

Off the top of my head I imagine that Catholics would be more influential in this alt-German Empire and their wouldn't be as much in the way of anti-Catholic Kulturkampf. A more pro-Catholic Empire would alienate the significant protestant populations in Germany, but might make it easier to hold onto any formerly Prussian Polish territory that the Empire inherits (as well as the Austrian Polish territory).

Another main issue would be the numerous non-German territories in the Austrian Empire. Would the German Empire be forced to embrace a more tolerant position towards minorities? Would a similar situation to the Dual Monarchy arise, with the Empire reformed into a German-Hungarian Empire, or would the mostly non-German parts of the Empire be broken off and united under a separate Hungarian/Polish-Hungarian Empire under a different Hapsburg?
 
Depends on the organisation. Under the traditional Austrian leadership, it could devolve into a horrific mess even worse than OTL Austria, but it could also turn into the greatest superpower the world has ever seen. It really is between those two extremes, if it can stabilize, rest in peace UK and America. If it can't... well prepare for the largest humanitarian crisis in modern history.
 
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Let's say what happens if they survive. Well at a sort of Berlin conference Super-Germany (What im calling this nation) could easily force the other powers to give it huge amounts of land, and honestly, there wouldn't be much they could do. Super-Germany's component nations WERE the central powers, the Ottomans and Bulgarians sort of helped, but really it was those two. Them combined, is a terrifying prospect and would almost certainly lead to the 20th century becoming the 'German Century'.
 
Plausibility check:

Would a Hapsburg Austria that was successful in unifying Germany attempt to recreate the Holy Roman Empire, or is that too Medieval for the 19th Century?
 
Could you have it where like the Habsburgs kick Prussia's ass and the Prussia parts of Prussia then have to join the German Confederation, which Austria will really dominate?
 
The German states would happily finance Austrian rule over the rest of the Hapsburg Empire? I don't think so.
 
Could you have it where like the Habsburgs kick Prussia's ass and the Prussia parts of Prussia then have to join the German Confederation, which Austria will really dominate?
I think they would prefer to regain Silesia, and have Saxony regain its areas from Prussia, depending on what time period this is at. The Prussian Rhineland would have to go, being either split up amongst small states and cadet branches of the larger ones, or to be one large state under a ruler with good relations to the Habsburgs. I can see Austria still remaining on the periphery of things due to its location, unless it was the one owning the Rhine, letting them surround the others.
 
Let's say what happens if they survive. Well at a sort of Berlin conference Super-Germany (What im calling this nation) could easily force the other powers to give it huge amounts of land, and honestly, there wouldn't be much they could do. Super-Germany's component nations WERE the central powers, the Ottomans and Bulgarians sort of helped, but really it was those two. Them combined, is a terrifying prospect and would almost certainly lead to the 20th century becoming the 'German Century'.

Yeah, I reckon if the Austrian Empire looks set to take control of Germany would prompt every other country in Europe to dogpile it in a conflict that makes the War of the Spanish Succession look like a playground scrap.

Probably to have a successful Austrian-unified Germany you'd have to split off the Hungarian Crown somehow. OTL Germany + Austria proper wouldn't be hugely stronger than OTL's Germany, so I'm inclined to think the Great Powers would be willing to permit it. It might help to wank France a bit as well during the 19th century (no demographic decline?) so that Austria-Germany looks less like a potential hegemon and more like a useful counterbalance to French ambitions.

One question which does interest me is how an Austrian-led Germany's culture and foreign policy would differ from OTL's Prussian-led Germany. Maybe it's just the WW1 propaganda, but I've always had the impression that Prussia was more militaristic than Austria, so perhaps TTL's Germany would be less likely to get involved in foreign wars and colonial misadventures?
 
Would Bavaria as the next large sized Catholic German Kingdom some how gain any favors? Would there be consideration due the marriages of Wittelsbach Princesses one being the Emperor Franz Josef's mother and the other his wife?

Also wouldn't Bavaria be in a place strategically should France now consider a unified Germany under Austrian rule a threat?
 
German unification happened because of German Nationalism.

The German People were happy to have Austria be the core of unification - but had absolutely not interest in Hungary or the Slavic lands.
Austria was happy to be that core - as long as they could keep those lands.

Basically, to make this work, you have to strip Transleithania (basically the Hungarian part) from Austria before it's possible.

The Germans would be happy to take 'Bohemia' (Czechia), and would likely put up with Slovenia, but Hungary and Croatia would be deal killers.
 
What do you think about an 1848 POD?
The Austrian emperor accepts the German imperial throne offered by the frankfurter diet and goes war with Prussia. To assure the Hungarian loyalty and support, the new civic government of Hungary is accepted by the king (the emperor) in exchange for full military support in the war against Prussia (and Savoy).

Then, by some miracles, Austria manages to defeat Prussia and her allies. Austria annexes Silesia for sure. Depending who's side Saxony was on Austria could take Lausitz from Saxony and Prussia, while giving other former Saxon territories back to Saxony from Prussia, or if Saxony sided with Austria, then the pre-1815 borders of Saxony could be restored. To appease the German demands, the Austrian emperor would abdicate as King of Hungary (it includes Croatia), passing the throne to the Hungarian branch of the Habsburg family. In return Austria would take the Rhineland. I'm not sure about Galicia though. Maybe together with the Duchy of Posen it could form an other Habsburg entity, which could lay claim on Congress Poland.

At the Beginning the new Austrian dominated Germany would be still just the German Confederacy, but it would by the late 60s, early 70s unify into an unitary state. The slow process would be needed to not anger the other Great Powers.

Prior to the 'complete' unification though, if there's still a Crimean war, a new unified Poland could be established as well with another Habsburg branch.

I have no idea about Italy though.
 
German unification happened because of German Nationalism.

The German People were happy to have Austria be the core of unification - but had absolutely not interest in Hungary or the Slavic lands.
Austria was happy to be that core - as long as they could keep those lands.

Basically, to make this work, you have to strip Transleithania (basically the Hungarian part) from Austria before it's possible.

The Germans would be happy to take 'Bohemia' (Czechia), and would likely put up with Slovenia, but Hungary and Croatia would be deal killers.

Yeah the German people were downright horrified at the idea of German domination of the non-German peoples of Eastern Europe. That's why no attempt like that was ever financed in our timeline.
 
German unification happened because of German Nationalism.

The German People were happy to have Austria be the core of unification - but had absolutely not interest in Hungary or the Slavic lands.
Austria was happy to be that core - as long as they could keep those lands.

Basically, to make this work, you have to strip Transleithania (basically the Hungarian part) from Austria before it's possible.

The Germans would be happy to take 'Bohemia' (Czechia), and would likely put up with Slovenia, but Hungary and Croatia would be deal killers.

Austria (well, the Habsburgs) can keep those lands, as long as they are happy with them not being in united Greater Germany. Just spin them off as dominion-expys, which is what happened in DoD.
 
Funny thing is that Youjo Senki came out in January and my 2nd cousin had an idea like the premise of the original post for a fanfiction (a Hapsburg Empire was a discarded idea by the actual author because he realized the past has nothing to do with Tanya's adventures). Picking up the author's stillborn idea, he has history start diverging by 1500s. In the 1710s a Maria Theresa (who doesn't look much like ours, or have personality) is supposed to pick up, but is attacked by Prussia, Sweden, Bavaria, Spain, Poland, and France. The Hapsbrugs win. Eventually, the Hapsburgs start collecting counties by inheritance in the HRE after their win.

In Prussia a few generation before, the rightful king was overthrown by his nephew. The Austria Succession challenger Prussian King was a grand grandchild of the usurper. One younger brother, the middle brother, was a Catholic and was a Margrave. The other brother (the one the king liked) was a fellow protastant. The middle brother adopted a kid, who had 3 counties from both his father and his mother.

Maria Theresa ran away from her regents and at the age of 13 hijacked command of an Austrian army whose commander died. The army sacks 3 French cities and defeats 3 different French armies in 5 pitched battles and an ambush. Her subordinates point out she is a good tactician, but, have no concept of anything that takes 170 hours to execute, to which she replies that what she had THEM for. They tried unsuccessfully to relieve her from command three times on the account of lacking a certain reproductive organ, but three counts from Austria backed their Archduchess who wasn't even supposed to rule yet (regency council). Many times they fought unnecessary battles against larger foes and losing meant annihilation while victory only led to modest material gains. In other words she could win battles, but didn't know which ones to fight and her response was "ok, you guys have the larger army and do what you want in Italy, I'm taking 25% of the army and going to Paris."

Shedding her siege train and supply line, everyone packs 7 days of rations and LOTS of ammo. Nothing is heavier than the 3 6 pounder guns. They surprise a French army 35K big and the 12 K Austrians defeat them and run down almost every last man. They bag 3K prisoners including the Dauphin, the siege train, provisions, and their cavalry runs down almost every Frenchman. They march onto Paris and quickly run out of artillery ammo. Maria Theresa demands the surrender of Paris, which the Austrians get the middle finger. Realizing that they are in danger of starvation, the Austrians spike their guns and make a getaway, only to be blocked by a French army. Maria Theresa arranges a fake retreat, and the French are like the British at Cowpens and fall for it hook line and sinker, but the larger French army still forces the Austrians in disarray after the initial Austrian gains and starts running them down with cavalry until the night. The Austrians suffer 3K casualties, and inflict 10K over the battle, but the problem is that they are broken into 3 groups which have more than 1K and one small group. The large groups left the battlefield unable to communicate with each other and each of the three separately retreat to the Rhine. One makes it to Hannover. One makes it to Hapsburg Italy. One makes it to the coast in Savoy. The small group contains 32 Horsemen and Maria Theresa. They go into Oldenburg and are arrested by the Count of Oldenburg who is allied with Prussia.

Alternate Maria Theresa, you suck as a child general. While the battles in the fanfic are plausible, the moronic counts who blocked all attempts to relieve her of command are really dumb, but we do have dumb generals in real life so I can't say that's unrealistic.

Austria was ruled by a regency council so nothing changes in the short run, there is a frantic exchange in letters from Vienna to Oldenburg, but surprisingly the Count does not hand over his prisoners. A 2nd cousin of Maria Theresa (same relatedness as me and the fic author) hijacks the regency council at the news of her captures and becomes de facto Archduke. Hungary's nobles refuses the cousin and styles their "King" Maria Theresa, starting a cold war with neither side willing to go at each other's throats while both are fighting the anti-Hapsburg enemies. The Hapsbrugs win in Italy, Barvarian, and Mediterranean cost of France. They hold off their other enemies to the north and the Ottomans who... actually there is a bug in this timeline there is no reason the Turkmen should be allied to the French. Well they are but they keep making tactical stupid decisions like trying to storm forts.

Three years later Maria Theresa comes into Vienna after a 30 day's notice, escorted by the count. She is accompanied by the Catholic brother of the King of Prussia, his daughters, and his adopted son. The son is actually the great grandchild of the overthrown king of Prussia and by male preference primogeniture, the rightful heir. He has the evidence to prove it too. What's more, the 17 boy and the 14 year old Maria Theresa both found each other cute and wanted to... do stuff but as Catholics needed to wait until marriage for some of that stuff. The fake Archduke (male but more distantly related) steps aside saying he only needed to rule since it was an emergency situation. He wanted to be elevated from count to Margrave for keeping the Hapsburg hereditary domains safe while spending 1/3 as much on military as France did. He also proudly announces that there are funds left in the treasury. If they mobilized every non garrison unit to the offensive (more expensive than passively waiting), used supply lines instead of foraging, and stopped collecting taxes, they could last for 38 months.

You know what's coming. The Hapsburgs have a war chest, have tactical battlefield victories, the British allied with them, their Archduchess safe, and a betrothal to a Prussian count who is revealed to be the true heir of Prussia.

After the war, the Hapsburgs collect titles over years by marriages. Eventually, Charles VII declares the creation of a unitary state with the approval of his nobles. Because he is an anglophile, it is "The Empire" not "Riech." Also, he wanted to deemphasize the German part because Hapsburg Monarchy, unity within the Empire, the Divine right of Kings, and German nationalism cannot all go together. The four are incompatible, any one of them can’t go with the other three. And guess which three are most important?

It still is very German though. It's the principal language and all nobles speak German.

Alas, this is an alien space bats timeline. Nothing I mentioned yet was fantasy. But in fact, the battles do contain low fantasy elements. Mages exist, but most of their offensive spells aren't useful due to long incantations. They can fly, but until the 1900s can only take off after 15 minutes of concentration, during which they can't shoot. In the War of Austrian Succession the flight is slow and in a straight line; they also can't shoot straight and maintain a flight spell until improvments are made generations later. So they are used like dragoons, only shooting after landing. The battles in the fic are plausible, both using in universe rules and during the non magical parts (most of them) are fairly plausible.

The only question is why the bad child general wasn't removed.
 
I've always thought for Austrian/Habsburgs survival hegemony in the long run the ideal thing to do would be to have the Emperor unify Germany (with Vienna or Frankfurt as capitol) and give up the Hungarian throne to one of the cadet branches (of which there several by the 1800s), possibly even a third Slavonian state if necessary. Get the heck out of Italy (which was the equivalent of Nappy's Spanish Ulcer for them), making deals with Italy by possibly having them give up any irrendentist claims on Austria proper (Trentino/Trieste/etc.) and the Tuscan Habsburgs get rewarded instead with the former Prussian Rhineland (or something similar), if TTL means Prussia has been stomped or make them Kings of Croatia or something.
That's probably something they wouldn't do but it would be the best thing for the dynasty as a whole (and even Austria - seperate from Hungary and its demands and attached to a Greater Germany it was in charge of).

With Habsburgs settled on thrones from the Rhine to the Balkans, and a Germany that is not ruled over by militaristic Prussians (probably means Napoleon III probably stays in power if there is no Bismarck in charge), there's a possibility that WWI is averted. Catholicism does play a bigger role than in OTL even if only in a protocol/ritual sense, and there is no Kulturkampf (although this would also mean the Emperor will be expected to be an even bigger protector of the Pope and Catholic rights when Italy takes Rome and the Papacy considers fleeing).
 
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