WI: austria with no ottomans

what if the Ottomans were defeated and collapsed into smaller, historically insignificant states in the 1400s, before expanding into Hungary and the Balcans... what would the effect be on Austria? would it still expand its own territory into Hungary and the rest of the Austrian crownlands?
 

Susano

Banned
Yes, they had inherited the crown of Hungary.

Yes, but only because of a succession pact as part fo a wider alliance that happened because of Ottoman pressure No ottoman pressure = no Hungary-Habsburg alliance = no succession pact = no Habsburg Hungary.
 
Yes, but only because of a succession pact as part fo a wider alliance that happened because of Ottoman pressure No ottoman pressure = no Hungary-Habsburg alliance = no succession pact = no Habsburg Hungary.

I'm with this view....
Hungary would remain the pre-eminant influence then and pursue its own interests...
 
Try searching for Vladislav II and Louis II of Hungary. IIRC, they are the ones who traded away the Crown of St Stephen.




thanks... but one thing I noticed, one reason for Hungary's power was that it expanded to fight back the Ottomans, without this threat would it have stagnated?

another interesting thing is at one point
Matthias Corvinus ruled from Vienna, so might a timeline like this see Austria dominated by Hungary?
 

Philip

Donor
thanks... but one thing I noticed, one reason for Hungary's power was that it expanded to fight back the Ottomans, without this threat would it have stagnated?

There were other threats -- the HRE, and Poland-Lithuania. Without the Ottomans, the Serbs and the Bulgarians would likely be stronger. We could also expect someone else to take the Ottomans' place.

another interesting thing is at one point [/size][/font]Matthias Corvinus ruled from Vienna, so might a timeline like this see Austria dominated by Hungary?

Not sure if I know enough about the time, but I think something would have to happen to the HRE. Either weaken it to force it to tolerate Hungarian control of Austria or integrate Hungary into the HRE. A Hungarian controlling Hungary, Bohemia, and Austria within the HRE could be interesting.
 
There were other threats -- the HRE, and Poland-Lithuania. Without the Ottomans, the Serbs and the Bulgarians would likely be stronger. We could also expect someone else to take the Ottomans' place.
for this speculation, there will be no strong force in anatolia until the 1600s at least when a warlord secures dominance... the whole place is in petty wars


Not sure if I know enough about the time, but I think something would have to happen to the HRE. Either weaken it to force it to tolerate Hungarian control of Austria or integrate Hungary into the HRE. A Hungarian controlling Hungary, Bohemia, and Austria within the HRE could be interesting.


so if it didn't weaken, might Hungary eventually become part of the HRE?
 

Philip

Donor
so if it didn't weaken, might Hungary eventually become part of the HRE?

I'm not an expert on the HRE, so don't take my thoughts on this as Gospel. That said, I can see it happening. Maybe Hungary is integrated with the King of Hungary as an elector -- this might be done to balance power if someone (say, the Hapsburgs) control too many votes.
 
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