What if at some point no later than the congress of Vienna (tough probably better much earlier), the Habsburg get the bavarian crown and made Bavaria part of their empire? Like Hungary it would be an integral part of the empire but its own crown, tough in the ausgleich it would be a cisleithenian kingdom. So by the 19 century we will be looking at an Austrian empire like otl but with added Bavaria? Would the bavarian be more cooperative with the austrians than the rest of the empire? Would this tip the imperial balance in favor of Vienna? How would this affect long term the austrian empire and its problems?
WI Austria gets the bavarian crown and it becomes part of the austrian empire?
- Thread starter EnvarKadri
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Best OTL chance is Charles VI retains Bavaria at the end of the WoSS. The Bavarian Wittlesbachs get Sardinia as was initially intended.
They'd have to work very hard to get the Bavarians loyal as Leopold I allowed Bavaria to be pillaged to convince the elector to switch back to the Grand Alliance bloc. If not I'd imagine Bavaria would jump ship as it could be easily argued none of the Habsburg daughters had as much right to it as the extant now Sardinian Wittlesbachs.
On the other hand, Charles VI may be more open to Eugene's idea of strengthening the army as succession in Bavaria would be far more tenuous than the other Habsburg realms. I'd imagine Frederick of prussia + France would have a harder time encircling the House Habsburg in this scenario.
I don't think Bavaria would be completely subsumed into Austria, I probably would be equivalent to Bohemia rather than Hungary.
If all goes well, Austria should have a better power base to curtail the Hungarian nobility, in the sense that they don't need to rely on their finances as much. In event of a rebellion more power base for troops although I'd hope it wouldn't come to that/be avoided but given the autocratic tendencies of the era I wouldn't be surprised.
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Austrian Bavarian would fundamental change the Austrian Empire it would raise the 1914 population from 52 millions to 58 million and raise the number of German speakers from 12 million to 18,5 million. Of course a earlier larger German population will also have effect elesewher.
This would create a much stronger and more coherent German core German areas. The relative impoverished Bavarians would likely also migrate to Austrian industrial regions like Bohemia and Austrian Silesia, which could push Bohemia toward a small German majority. That alone would give the empire a very strong loyalist core.
Of course the Uastrian dream scenario are Austrian control over both Bavaria and Silesia.
This would create a much stronger and more coherent German core German areas. The relative impoverished Bavarians would likely also migrate to Austrian industrial regions like Bohemia and Austrian Silesia, which could push Bohemia toward a small German majority. That alone would give the empire a very strong loyalist core.
Of course the Uastrian dream scenario are Austrian control over both Bavaria and Silesia.
Last chance I see is during the War of Austrian Succession where their alliance with France turns out for the worse, and the Bavarian Wittlesbach Lines ends a bit sooner than OTL
Acknowledged and agreed, but notice I said best not last. The presumption @ the treaty of Utrecht between France- GB and the Netherlands was that Austria would keep Bavaria and the Wittlesbachs would keep Sardinia. At this point Bavaria was there's to keep if they wished but they chose not too and also weakened their hand by attempting to fight on w/o the support of other powers.
One could make the argument that Austria keeping Bavaria would strengthen the need for other powers to support her @ the eventual WoAS provided it continues as OTL. It could be argued that France + whichever other parties would be trying to violate further from the outset the terms @ the end of the WoSS. We all know a nation's word really wasn't it's bond but still there's some increased diplomatic cover to assist Austria from the outset even w/o recognising the pragmatic sanction.
Well, OTL, there were two plans (under Karl Theodor) to swap Bavaria for a polity elsewhere, one in 1777 when he became elector and the ensuing Bavarian Succession War which followed. And another in the 1790s (when he married his second wife, Maria Leopoldine of Modena). It would be hilarious if Austria were to lose Hungary to the pro-Prussian Prince of Saxe-Weimar (as proposed in the Hungarian Rebellion thread), and are willing to part with their Hungarian subjects (Joseph II and Leopold II never really liked them in the same way as their mother did - think a proto-Sisi and Rudolf kinda relationship with the Magyars) in exchange for Prussia uncontesting their "right" to Bavaria. Of course, if Joseph/Leopold II and Friedrich Wilhelm II agree to it at an alt-Pillnitz, and it only comes to pass in the reign of Franz II/Friedrich Wilhelm III, it could be fun to see spiral out of control.
The boys descended from Maria Amalie of Austria were too young (there was talk of her marrying the eldest son of Maria Josepha and the elector of Saxony, but then he died and it fell by the wayside)
You also have a chance in the mid to late 1700s, via a deal with the French: Austrians get Bavaria and France gets Southern Netherlands. Biggest obstacle is Prussia but that's solvable with no Miracle.
Austria with Bavaria, Silesia and no Prussia is in a very strong position for German unification. But a MegaFrance could stand in the way.
Another thing to consider is that Bavaria had a very strong Enlightenment liberal movement. They could make Josephinism have a much stronger base.
Austria with Bavaria, Silesia and no Prussia is in a very strong position for German unification. But a MegaFrance could stand in the way.
Another thing to consider is that Bavaria had a very strong Enlightenment liberal movement. They could make Josephinism have a much stronger base.
Dumb question: why WAS Bavaria inherited by Karl Theodor in 1777. AIUI an electorate whose ruling family has gone extinct is not necessarily given to the heirs of the ruling family (the Electors Palatine inheriting Bavaria is the exception. Both Saxony and Brandenburg had found themselves regranted to people from other families - first Wittelsbach, then Luxemburg and finally Hohenzollern and Wettin - rather than being given to the "heirs" of the previous holder - Askaniër for Brandenburg and Saxe-Lauenburg for Saxony).
https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...rade-bavaria-for-austrian-netherlands.282564/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Bavarian_Succession#Resurgence_of_the_problem Maybe the trade of Bavaria for Austrian netherlands is sucessful here? the wittelbasch keep their electoral title as 'count palatine' alongside rulling Austrian Netherlands/Burgundy whatever they ended up naming it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Bavarian_Succession#Resurgence_of_the_problem Maybe the trade of Bavaria for Austrian netherlands is sucessful here? the wittelbasch keep their electoral title as 'count palatine' alongside rulling Austrian Netherlands/Burgundy whatever they ended up naming it.
Which predates the Golden Bull, not sure whether it'd be superseded by it though.
AFAIK, the Habsburgs and the Bavarians did a mutual extinction treaty in the early 16th century (think it was just after Philipp the Handsome died, and the Landshut War of Succession) whereby the Habsburgs were to get Bavaria if the Bavarian Wittelsbachs died out, and said Wittelsbachs were to get the Habsburg lands in the event of the male line failing. Since, IIRC, this was the premise that Karl VII based his claim to the imperial throne on (him being married to an archduchess gave him a extra leg-up) it was obviously still being respected in the 1740s.
Obviously has the House Treaty of Pavia was for Wittelsbach more respected