WI: Aryans migrated to the East

I don't know the results of a Vedic religion arriving in China at such an early date. How it will affect the development of Sinic culture and civilization? Will Lord Buddha or a similar person be born in China? Will both Buddhism and Confucianism develop side by side? Confucianism will lose its advantage of being the native religion in this case.
In India it could lead to a simpler culture, mainly Dravidian in nature. India could become a very large version of the present Tamilnadu or South India under the circumstances. Indian culture will not be as diverse as in OTL and Dravidian languages will dominate. Tamil might develop as the lingua franca, if not the majority or sole language.
 

FDW

Banned
I don't know the results of a Vedic religion arriving in China at such an early date. How it will affect the development of Sinic culture and civilization? Will Lord Buddha or a similar person be born in China? Will both Buddhism and Confucianism develop side by side? Confucianism will lose its advantage of being the native religion in this case.
In India it could lead to a simpler culture, mainly Dravidian in nature. India could become a very large version of the present Tamilnadu or South India under the circumstances. Indian culture will not be as diverse as in OTL and Dravidian languages will dominate. Tamil might develop as the lingua franca, if not the majority or sole language.

Chances are we might see something like Taoism, but the other two are probably off the table due to butterflies.
 
I don't know the results of a Vedic religion arriving in China at such an early date. How it will affect the development of Sinic culture and civilization? Will Lord Buddha or a similar person be born in China? Will both Buddhism and Confucianism develop side by side? Confucianism will lose its advantage of being the native religion in this case.
In India it could lead to a simpler culture, mainly Dravidian in nature. India could become a very large version of the present Tamilnadu or South India under the circumstances. Indian culture will not be as diverse as in OTL and Dravidian languages will dominate. Tamil might develop as the lingua franca, if not the majority or sole language.
I'm not convinced it would have an effect on China. After all, there were plenty of horse nomads in the the Yellow River Valley area, so if we're working on the basis that the Indo-European migrants were horse nomads. However, though these nomads were quite powerful and independent from the Anyang/Shang civilization (Anyang corresponds so well to the late Shang that the early Shang's existence seems obvious to me), but they didn't actually conquer the Shang. As I see it, depending on the time period we're talking about, it could be that migrants might mean increased conflict amongst nomadic groups for resources. The idea that the basics of Chinese civilization must be altered should be debated first.
 
Heres an idea: The Aryans go to both India and China?

Would this be feasible? Were their numbers big enough to support this?
 

Nihao

Banned
I'm not convinced it would have an effect on China. After all, there were plenty of horse nomads in the the Yellow River Valley area, so if we're working on the basis that the Indo-European migrants were horse nomads. However, though these nomads were quite powerful and independent from the Anyang/Shang civilization (Anyang corresponds so well to the late Shang that the early Shang's existence seems obvious to me), but they didn't actually conquer the Shang. As I see it, depending on the time period we're talking about, it could be that migrants might mean increased conflict amongst nomadic groups for resources. The idea that the basics of Chinese civilization must be altered should be debated first.

But aren't the Aryans had the technological advantage? Likechariot riding and iron smelting...
 
Clearly, they cross the Bering Strait, populate North America, and get downtrodden by a religion that invented and controls their gunpowder..... ;)
Just one Shaman trippin different uh? Sounds like alien space Martians to me!;)
It is my impression that the Indo-Europeans, upon getting the hang of horse riding and milk drinking, expanded every which way. The ones that ran into the Chinese just couldnt make the impression the way they did in Europe and India. So if the Tocharians or who ever go to India and Aryans toward China; there wouldnt be that much difference.
 
But aren't the Aryans had the technological advantage? Likechariot riding and iron smelting...
What time period are we talking? The Shang had chariots too, at least by 1200 BCE. The enemies of the Shang also had chariots: it seems they were the ones who introduced the chariots to the Shang. The Shang, unlike these enemies, used these chariots more as ceremonial objects than military vehicles, but what's to argue that they couldn't have that vice versa?

So even if Indo-European peoples arrive earlier with chariots, I think the Shang would be able to come up with their own chariots as well, though I would need more specific dates (e.g., are these new invaders arriving in 1500 BCE or 1000 BCE? It makes a difference) in order to talk more about China's developmental stages.
 

FDW

Banned
What time period are we talking? The Shang had chariots too, at least by 1200 BCE. The enemies of the Shang also had chariots: it seems they were the ones who introduced the chariots to the Shang. The Shang, unlike these enemies, used these chariots more as ceremonial objects than military vehicles, but what's to argue that they couldn't have that vice versa?

So even if Indo-European peoples arrive earlier with chariots, I think the Shang would be able to come up with their own chariots as well, though I would need more specific dates (e.g., are these new invaders arriving in 1500 BCE or 1000 BCE? It makes a difference) in order to talk more about China's developmental stages.

Let's say it's around the same time the Indus River Valley civilization got invaded, around 1500 BCE.
 
I beleive what he's saying is that the Vedic sociology is the base while the Aryans beliefs were added on top of it, leading to the inclusion of new deities, the demotion of many of the original Vedic deities and the creation of a new hybrid system.

What? Vedic Hinduism is the oldest attributed form of the religion--IOW, the most Aryan, not the least. It wasn't Aryan beliefs that impacted it, but the beliefs of the subcontinent's natives whom the Aryans encountered, eventually syncretizing with to form the modern religion. His point was that the encounter of the Indo-Aryans with native Indians (the Dravidians) led to radical changes in Aryan beliefs, and so if they had traveled to China and encountered, well, the Chinese then nothing very much like Hinduism would have formed--and moreover that the actual beliefs of the native Indians would likely have survived into the present (although I'm not certain of that; as Flocc has brought up before, Buddhism sort of inoculated Hinduism against missionary, aggressive religions. Without that, if something like Islam shows up...on the other hand, Zoroastrianism is likely to be significantly affected or eliminated, and that in turn is likely to substantially change the development of Judaism, then Christianity and Islam, so perhaps there wouldn't be any aggressive monotheists from the West ITTL, either)

As an aside, it's my understanding that it's very unclear whether the natives with whom the Aryans were interacting were actually particularly closely related to the Indus Valley Civilization or not--compare, say, England in the wake of the collapse of the Roman Empire. It seems a bit presumptuous to identify any particular aspect of any modern religion or culture as having been descended from them, especially given how little I am given to understand we actually know about them. I mean, to the best of my knowledge we can't even understand any of the inscriptions we've found, so how can you authoritatively state that this god or that god was worshipped in the Indus Valley Civilization?
 
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