WI: Antarctica as an independent nation

SinghKing

Banned
Exactly.

In my original post I was referring to an eventual settlement in the warmer areas of Peninsula Antarctica (of course the High Plateau is not habitable). This is not much different from Greenland, where the southern fjordland is habitable while the center of the island is not at all.

Antarctica was not historically inhabited due to its isolation (the Arctic areas are far better interconnected with the southern warmer lands, allowing easier migrations), but not because it would be fully inhabitable.

The closest native human groups were the Selknam of Tierra del Fuego, and they lacked of the necessary technology to travel from their homeland to the Peninsula Antarctica.

However, I was thinking about a groups of whalers or so, settling there by the 18th century. If they adapt to live there, fishing and hunting seals and seabirds, they might prosper and claim those lands as theirs.

They didn't lack the necessary technology- they had canoes, and some could have easily been blown across or carried across on the currents. Besides, for the purpose of this scenario, it's almost certainly more important that they do lack the necessary technology to travel back to their homeland from the Antarctic peninsula. After all, what on Earth would possess people to take up permanent residence there willingly, when they have the option of simply establishing transient settlements instead?
 

GdwnsnHo

Banned
Personally, with our developments in greenhouse controlled environments and various methods of power generation (wind, oil, occasionally solar) with an incredible exertion of ingenuity, and tenacity, it could be possible to begin basic colonies in Antarctica.

It all relies on developing a statelet on a similar size to McMurdo station.

Considering how many people volunteered to go to Mars, I think a private enterprise/co-operative could gather funds to exploit resources - or even just apply technology to supply the resources needed by research stations (be it clothes and food from hydroponic sources).

At what point it becomes sustainable - I'm not sure if it is practical to mine for metals and other resources in Antarctica, so hardware would have to be brought in, and then maintained incredibly well - and recycled in electric-forges.

If oil, or some high-demand mineral is available in a manner that is economically practical, various private enterprises forming small (1000-3000) man colonies for their operations could very well see the people there use the UN Charter for self-determination.

As long as people can buy their resources, then I can't see why it wouldn't be recognised at the UN. It'd be tiny compared to many and will likely be heavily influenced by other states.

Getting recognised by some as the only state in Antarctica isn't too hard after the UN. The greatest difficulty is actually controlling it, and having it universally recognised.

So yeah, you can do it now.

As an interesting side note - We'd likely see a nation with more scientists, researchers and the like than many others. Or at least see them visiting. Science-Tourism could very well be fundamental to such a states survival.
 
They didn't lack the necessary technology- they had canoes, and some could have easily been blown across or carried across on the currents. Besides, for the purpose of this scenario, it's almost certainly more important that they do lack the necessary technology to travel back to their homeland from the Antarctic peninsula. After all, what on Earth would possess people to take up permanent residence there willingly, when they have the option of simply establishing transient settlements instead?

Err... But you need significant tech to survive in the A(anta)rctic. The Inuit have a whole battery of such, knowing how to hunt seals, make really warm clothes, kayaks to hunt seafood (seals, etc.), which you need, 'cause no one's going to live off the LAND in Antarctica.
 
Your best option is done sort of 19th Century European Cololinal fort system in the Antarctic Peninsula. Have a power having too much influence in Argentina and have a, rival nation set up a "colony" there. From here you can get Antarctica to Greenland levels of independence. When the globalized era rolls along you can probably get it to be independent. Reliant on Fishing, Argentina, the Mother country and ecotourists for stability, but still independent.
 

SinghKing

Banned
Err... But you need significant tech to survive in the A(anta)rctic. The Inuit have a whole battery of such, knowing how to hunt seals, make really warm clothes, kayaks to hunt seafood (seals, etc.), which you need, 'cause no one's going to live off the LAND in Antarctica.

See the Yaghan people, who were the group which I proposed- the southernmost peoples anywhere in the world. They already lived in an extremely cold environment- an annual rainfall of 1,357 mm (53.42 in), with an average annual temperature of 5.2 °C (41.4 °F), and winds averaging 30 kph (5 Bf), with squalls of over 100 kph (10 Bf) occurring in all seasons (gale force 5% of the time in summer, rising up to 30% of the time in winter); 278 days of rainfall (70 days snow) and 2000 mm of annual rainfall. As such, they'd already had to develop a whole host of adaptations to the harsh climate, both technological and physical- and they endured these conditions when they were naked, without even being bothering to go to the trouble of wearing any clothing at all. All the stranded group in the South Sandwich Islands would have to do would be to start hunting fur seals as well as sea lions, skinning them to wear their furs as clothing, and they'd be set.
 
See the Yaghan people, who were the group which I proposed- the southernmost peoples anywhere in the world. They already lived in an extremely cold environment- an annual rainfall of 1,357 mm (53.42 in), with an average annual temperature of 5.2 °C (41.4 °F), and winds averaging 30 kph (5 Bf), with squalls of over 100 kph (10 Bf) occurring in all seasons (gale force 5% of the time in summer, rising up to 30% of the time in winter); 278 days of rainfall (70 days snow) and 2000 mm of annual rainfall. As such, they'd already had to develop a whole host of adaptations to the harsh climate, both technological and physical- and they endured these conditions when they were naked, without even being bothering to go to the trouble of wearing any clothing at all. All the stranded group in the South Sandwich Islands would have to do would be to start hunting fur seals as well as sea lions, skinning them to wear their furs as clothing, and they'd be set.
But what on earth would they eat when the seals are breeding on land? If you want to survive in that area, you need to be able to feed yourself all year. "There are no native land mammals" in the South Sandwich Islands, according to Wiki, and seals only breed for a few months a year.

So. They NEED to be able to hunt on the sea. Which requires a lot of tech to be developed. The Inuit way of life and tech may have been primitive by European standards, but was incredibly well suited to their way of life.
 

SinghKing

Banned
But what on earth would they eat when the seals are breeding on land? If you want to survive in that area, you need to be able to feed yourself all year. "There are no native land mammals" in the South Sandwich Islands, according to Wiki, and seals only breed for a few months a year.

So. They NEED to be able to hunt on the sea. Which requires a lot of tech to be developed. The Inuit way of life and tech may have been primitive by European standards, but was incredibly well suited to their way of life.

You did read the article, right? They DID hunt on the sea. And there weren't any native land mammals on the Tierra del Fuego archipelago either. Didn't stop them from surviving there, did it?
 
You did read the article, right? They DID hunt on the sea. And there weren't any native land mammals on the Tierra del Fuego archipelago either. Didn't stop them from surviving there, did it?

The article says they dove for shellfish. and as for native land animals,
Among the most notable animals in the archipelago are austral parakeets, sea gulls, guanacos, foxes, kingfishers, condors, king penguins, owls, and firecrown hummingbirds.

Guanacos are definitely land animals, and so are foxes, and probably whatever the foxes (and owls) were eating.

So, no. Tierra del Fuego and the South Sandwich Islands (let alone Antarctica) are entirely different environments, and your Yaghan would die off in a year.

Note: Tierra del Fuego even has forests! which basically no place that Inuit lived did.
 
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SinghKing

Banned
The article says they dove for shellfish. and as for native land animals,

Guanacos are definitely land animals, and so are foxes, and probably whatever the foxes (and owls) were eating.

So, no. Tierra del Fuego and the South Sandwich Islands (let alone Antarctica) are entirely different environments, and your Yaghan would die off in a year.

Note: Tierra del Fuego even has forests! which basically no place that Inuit lived did.

You said "native land mammals", not "native land animals". And the Yaghan only lived on the islands south of Isla Grande Tierra del Feugo. They aren't any guanocos or foxes down that far south in the Tierra Del Fuego archipelago. No forests- or even any trees whatsoever, for that matter. Their ancestral homeland of Yachkusin, where they've lived for the last few thousand years (consisting of the Wollaston Islands, Hoste Island and Cape Horn), is actually already in the Antarctic tundra climatological zone.

And as for the South Sandwich Islands, that was actually a typo- I actually meant the South Shetland Islands (easy mistake to make), which happen to be directly across the Drake Passage from Cape Horn (with the width of the passage between them comparable to that between mainland Norway and the Svalbard archipelago). Here, in the South Shetland Islands (and many of the South Sandwich Islands, for that matter) a couple of invasive flora, introduced wholly unintentionally (in other words, no agriculture required) by recent human visitors IOTL, which originated from the southernmost islands of the Tierra Del Fuego archipelago IOTL, have actually been successful. IMHO, the most notable among them would probably be Azorella trifurcata (a member of the carrot and parsnip family, which has similarly edible roots):

p1010508.jpg


And more recently, Berberis microphylla ('Calafate'), an evergreen shrub which is actually grown commercially for its fruit, for the red dye which can be made from its wood, potential medical uses, and as a garden plant or bonsai:

Calafate%20fruits.jpg


Also worth a mention- the Durvillaea antarctica seaweed (known as 'Cochayuyo') is also very edible. It's traditionally always been harvested for food by the native Americans in this region, and in Chilean cuisine, the stem and holdfast of this seaweed, known as 'hulte', is still heavily used for salads and stews. And the 'Antarctica' part of the scientific name isn't just a token gesture- Here's a photo of some, growing in the coastal waters of South Georgia's Cooper Bay:

3333141426_befe481e70.jpg


All of that seaweed you see floating there? It's edible. And more importantly, any Yaghan people stranded on those islands would know full well that it was edible, and would already be accustomed to harvesting it and eating it as one of their staple foods.

EDIT: BTW, since South Georgia Island's not properly in Antarctica, and the relatively low latitude of South Georgia may call the potential crop's range into question, here's another image of the same species of edible seaweed, taken at the Australian Davis Antarctic Research Station in mid-June:

antarctic.jpg
 
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SinghKing

Banned
Bumping this. Given the info, could Yaghan settlers in an ATL have potentially been capable of forming a viable community on the Antarctic peninsula, perhaps even developing seaweed farming of the edible Durvillaea antarctica, 'Cochayuyo' harvests as a necessity to support themselves in such a harsh environment (and perhaps even expand their territorial reach even further south, following the kelp fields along the coastline of Antarctica)? Could they have potentially used the bull kelp as the founder crop upon which to establish an indigenous Antarctic civilization?

EDIT: also, A few relevant facts about "Cochayuyo" (the Quechua name for it- not sure what the Yaghan name for it was, since there's only one speaker of the language left alive)- while it's commonly preserved by being sun-dried IOTL, it could also be preserved by being freeze-dried (as it would be naturally, if left out in the open air in Antarctica) in a similar fashion. After being preserved in this manner, harvests could be kept as stock for years- and susbquently to prepare it in a dish, it then simply needs to be softened up by being defrosted and soaked in water (perhaps over the communal campfire?). The Southern Maori also used the wide blades of Durvillaea antarctica, as storage bags or "poha titi" to store the mutton birds (titi) in their own fat - a method still used today. And the extreme flexibility of the stipe and blades of this seaweed are extremely flexible due to the high concentration of alginate in the kelp tissue- able to stretch and flex with rough seas, returning again to their original position without snapping. This led Durvillaea antarctica to be used historically by the indigenous peoples of Chile as bouncing balls. So there are plenty of possibilities for it to be exploited to the full, especially by an Antarctic civilization which has very little else at its disposal.
 
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They didn't lack the necessary technology- they had canoes, and some could have easily been blown across or carried across on the currents. Besides, for the purpose of this scenario, it's almost certainly more important that they do lack the necessary technology to travel back to their homeland from the Antarctic peninsula. After all, what on Earth would possess people to take up permanent residence there willingly, when they have the option of simply establishing transient settlements instead?

It's very unlikely that any Native American canoe could travel from Tierra del Fuego to Peninsula Antarctica, even by chance.

The Passage of Drake (more than 800 km) is a very dangerous strait due to the fierce sea streams, and this is the reason that ships usually circunnavegate South America through the safer Magellan strait.

Whatever settlement in Peninsula Antarctica before the mid-20th century should have been self-sustaining, as dependence on fluent interchange with Tierra del Fuego is certainly complicated.
 
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