WI: Another Colonial Power agrees to the Louisiana Purchase

[Spens1]

As the title says, WI another colonial power instead of the Independent United States agrees to purchase Louisiana as well as agrees to pay off the debt France had owed to the Americans (this could be either the Spanish, Dutch, Portugese, Prussians, hell Qing Chinese if they get there or most likely, the British).

What is the immediate implications for the U.S (who couldn't get the deal done) other than being a lot smaller, but remaining with a fair bit of money as well as the colonial power who just purchased the territory and the implications there for the immediate 50-100 years after, how do they go about developing it and how does culture develop there.

Also what would the U.S. and Louisiana look like today.

 

[Southern pride]

The U.S.A will most likely seize Upper Louisiana and the Upper half of Lower Louisiana leaving the purchasing nation with the Baton Rouge-New Orleans area

 

[Sevarics]

Why not just have Spain not give it back to France

 

[Spens1]

The U.S.A will most likely seize Upper Louisiana and the Upper half of Lower Louisiana leaving the purchasing nation with the Baton Rouge-New Orleans area

And risk war so early on, who is to say the colonial powers wouldn't unite to stop a belligerent U.S (I mean we know they wanted any excuse). Long term I could see it but surely not immediately

 

[DominusNovus]

And risk war so early on, who is to say the colonial powers wouldn't unite to stop a belligerent U.S (I mean we know they wanted any excuse). Long term I could see it but surely not immediately

Maybe. If its a continental power, there’s a decent chance they’re at war with Britain. Britain, which has control of the seas and can prevent any attacks in the Western Hemisphere. Britain, who would not mind if the US were co-belligerants against France.

 

[FillyofDelphi]

Yah... you kind of have a dearth of potential buyers who aren't the US at the moment, given the fact that much of the continent is kind of at war with either France or Britain over this period. Let's go over the possabilites (or rather, lack of them)

Spain: They just gave you the place; why would they buy it back almost immediately?

The Batavians/Dutch: France just conquered them and is already extracting their resources in a client relationship, and the Dutch overseas empire has been put in British custody.

United Kingdom: ... do I even have to explain?

Portugal: Long-time allies of the UK and at war with France and Spain

Austria: At war with France consistantly

Prussia: Same deal

Scandinavia: Don't have the money, and are either hemmed in by the British in Denmark's case or France in Sweden's case.

Russia: At war with France

Which basically leaves only one even remotely possible option...

Ottoman Louisiana. And THAT'S... well, crazy.

 

[DominusNovus]

I really like the idea of Ottoman Louisiana, just for the sheer perversity of it. That said, some of those powers were allied to France intermittently.

 

[Oliveia]

The U.S.A will most likely seize Upper Louisiana and the Upper half of Lower Louisiana leaving the purchasing nation with the Baton Rouge-New Orleans area

Why so? I believe it'd be the exact opposite, what with New Orleans being the only main reason the Purchase happened. It was prime land, with it being a big sea port in a great location. To my understanding, many just wanted to buy New Orleans (what, with it being 2/3 of the Purchase's price). Hell, looking at Wikipedia quickly secures that belief:
"The Americans thought that Napoleon might withdraw the offer at any time, preventing the United States from acquiring New Orleans, so they agreed and signed the Louisiana Purchase Treaty on April 30, 1803."
from acquiring New Orleans.
Hell, if we were doing this from a strategic point of view, the whole of the territory was as sparse as sparse could get, so getting the New Orleans area would essentially choke out the enemy.

 

[Bobbbcat2]

I really like the idea of Ottoman Louisiana, just for the sheer perversity of it. That said, some of those powers were allied to France intermittently.

Ottoman Louisiana has to be one of the best ideas I've heard on this site, just because of the idea of Ottoman soldiers fighting in alligator infested swamps.

 

[FillyofDelphi]

Ottoman Louisiana has to be one of the best ideas I've heard on this site, just because of the idea of Ottoman soldiers fighting in alligator infested swamps.

Well, you could always just look at a Battle of New Orleans at Alexandria. Granted, it's crocodiles in the Nile delta, not alligators, but like the rest of the setting its close enough

 

[Spens1]

Yah... you kind of have a dearth of potential buyers who aren't the US at the moment, given the fact that much of the continent is kind of at war with either France or Britain over this period. Let's go over the possabilites (or rather, lack of them)

Spain: They just gave you the place; why would they buy it back almost immediately?

The Batavians/Dutch: France just conquered them and is already extracting their resources in a client relationship, and the Dutch overseas empire has been put in British custody.

United Kingdom: ... do I even have to explain?

Portugal: Long-time allies of the UK and at war with France and Spain

Austria: At war with France consistantly

Prussia: Same deal

Scandinavia: Don't have the money, and are either hemmed in by the British in Denmark's case or France in Sweden's case.

Russia: At war with France

Which basically leaves only one even remotely possible option...

Ottoman Louisiana. And THAT'S... well, crazy.

That would be amusing.

Also the French really were warring with everyone at that point.

Also like i said, could Qing China be an option or some other eastern power (i mean France hadn't found a way to wage war with them at least).

 

[Deleted member 114175]

Perhaps Denmark-Norway, if they had remained militarily neutral but economically pro-British.

 

[FillyofDelphi]

Perhaps Denmark-Norway, if they had remained militarily neutral but economically pro-British.

I'd argue that's borderline not possible. Given the importance of the Sounds in the Baltic trade (The Baltic States being one of the biggest sources of European naval stores and, thus, access to it being a huge boon to Britain's ability to maintain the blockade and it's "wooden wall"), Nappy would have marched a force up to Holstein and insisted Denmark conform to Continental policy and reorient towards France. Denmark's position was less a matter of its own choosing and more being caught in the crossfire as a curse of its geography

 

[ByzantineCaesar]

What if France just loses Lousiana to the British in the Congress of Vienna?

 

[Southern pride]

Why so? I believe it'd be the exact opposite, what with New Orleans being the only main reason the Purchase happened. It was prime land, with it being a big sea port in a great location. To my understanding, many just wanted to buy New Orleans (what, with it being 2/3 of the Purchase's price). Hell, looking at Wikipedia quickly secures that belief:
"The Americans thought that Napoleon might withdraw the offer at any time, preventing the United States from acquiring New Orleans, so they agreed and signed the Louisiana Purchase Treaty on April 30, 1803."
from acquiring New Orleans.
Hell, if we were doing this from a strategic point of view, the whole of the territory was as sparse as sparse could get, so getting the New Orleans area would essentially choke out the enemy.

I was assuming that the buyer had already established a strong garrison in the south and left the North to its own devices.

 

[stevej713]

In 1800 Louisiana's perceived value was questionable. It was a string of forts spread out along a very long river with no developed economy. The United States was the only country that saw any potential in it apart from fur trapping, which was a declining industry anyhow.

 

[catalfalque]

OK let us look at say Denmark

Presumably they could raise the money, and pay it

What then? Can they actually DO ANYTHING with Louisiana?

Probably they can build a port and fort on the coast, maybe one upstream

But the rest of their control is going to be notional

Americans are going to be ALL OVER this area, settling, trading, selling etc and it will be completely out of the hands of the Danish governor

 

[FillyofDelphi]

In 1800 Louisiana's perceived value was questionable. It was a string of forts spread out along a very long river with no developed economy. The United States was the only country that saw any potential in it apart from fur trapping, which was a declining industry anyhow.

The French saw value in it (it's the reason they convinced Spain to return it) as a source of cheap grain for the plantation economies of the Caribbean (Saint Dominique/Haiti, in particular), which would allow them to use ever greater shares of the land for cash crops and support greater populations of slaves to work them, this producing great wealth for France. It was only after accepting the permanent lose of these money-making jewels of a potential second New World empire that Napoleon decided to scrap the project entirely

 

[Spens1]

OK let us look at say Denmark

Presumably they could raise the money, and pay it

What then? Can they actually DO ANYTHING with Louisiana?

Probably they can build a port and fort on the coast, maybe one upstream

But the rest of their control is going to be notional

Americans are going to be ALL OVER this area, settling, trading, selling etc and it will be completely out of the hands of the Danish governor

again, would the Americans start a war after a legal purchase of land?

 

[Bobbbcat2]

again, would the Americans start a war after a legal purchase of land?

The USA probably won't start a war right away, but Americans are soon going to settle border regions, leading to a war.