WI: Anne Boleyn is Barren

Oh yes, that’s the scenario I’m positing. Henry’s moved Heaven and raised Hell to get this woman to be his queen, thinking that she’ll be bringing him lots of lovely sons. And then as each month goes by, he realizes she’s not getting pregnant.

OTL, there was Elizabeth I and a few miscarriages which I guess gave him some hope until Jane Seymour emerged on the scene. Anne herself told Henry that she was wasting her youth waiting for him, when she could’ve married another man and borne him fine sons. Here, she has wasted her youth, I guess.

Maybe it’s the stress, maybe it was that bout of illness she had in the late 1520s where she nearly died, maybe she is just genetically incompatible with our favourite Tudor king. But whatever, the reason, Anne is unable to get pregnant – not miscarriages or something like Katherine suffered. How might Henry (who was profoundly religious/superstitious) view the fact that this woman can’t bear him any children, much less a son?
 
Anne herself told Henry that she was wasting her youth waiting for him, when she could’ve married another man and borne him fine sons. Here, she has wasted her youth, I guess.

Somehow, I can't really feel sorry for her anymore than I can feel sorry for Henry...

I thinks it's similar to OTL. Off with her head! Henry VIII is going to be similar to OTL. No sons means a worthless consort to him (except number 6, who he just wanted as a companion even though he considered number 3 his one true wife)

Our biggest butterfly waits until Mary dies. because we have no Elizabeth, one of England's best administrators who got England out of the red. Mary Stuart becomes Queen of England, but in 1530 Henry started the English reformation and in 1533 he took away "ctl Z" to it. How will Mary handle this, I don't know.
 
Interesting. The impetus for their secret marriage in January 1533 was Anne's pregnancy (she'd given in on the trip to France in 1532). Are you saying she lied about being pregnant or had a phantom pregnancy (like Katherine after the first miscarriage when her uterus didn't contract at once)? If she is NEVER pregnant, she's a cooked goose before Jane has a chance to tell Henry "no ring, no fling" (a la Anne). There will be no "Oath of Succession" (because that was caused by Elizabeth being a girl), so Sir Thomas More won't be a martyr (at least not at this time). If, by mid 1535, she's still as regular as the seasons, she's likely to be getting a visit from her Uncle the Duke of Norfolk and her father the Earl of Wiltshire, both of whom will tell her to ask him for an annulment on the grounds that it's obvious God disapproves - but she doesn't know why (feigning ignorance of her sister's relationship officially) and offering to withdraw to a convent (in France if she's smart) at once. Henry will then be neither fish nor fowl before Katherine's death. Which, if he's lucky, still occurs in early 1536. Then he can court Jane or some other English Rose, but he probably won't get many offers from abroad. If Anne doesn't broach the subject first, she's toast. Henry won't take the chance she'll pull a Katherine and drag out the annulment.
 
Oh I misread it. I thought @Kellan Sullivan meant Elizabeth was a miscarriage and then Anne barren (no more children). Yeah if she lied about being pregnant she's screwed and not in OTL's way that I suggested
 
So, Kellan, does she fake it (deliberately or not) or is she faked out by her own body (phantom pregnancy)?

Otherwise, he's going to have to wait longer to wed her. Which won't improve his temper when she doesn't produce a son (or even a worthless girl-child) after he weds her.
 
The idea that was spinning around in my head was that Anne can't conceive. As stated, she has wasted her youth (to use her own words). So, at first, she and Hal start sleeping together, and finally marriage, but no baby follows. I agree with @desmirelle that it's likely that Norfolk is going to pay her a visit. Whether Anne will accept his advice is another question. She doesn't know she's barren, after all. She might just insist she needs more time.

However, I was under the impression that part of Anne's saving grace - ironically enough - was Katherine. As long as Katherine was still alive, Henry couldn't set her aside without any loss of face. So, Anne might still be safe until January 1536, even if she's already broached the subject of an annulment/retirement to a convent (because who doesn't love the irony of Anne! ending up in a convent (I know in Donizetti's opera, Anna Bolena, she mentions that she might be punished in this way, ICR if she thought so OTL or if this was just authorial license)?). Henry might sign the deed of separation in early 1536, but Anne is going to pay for insulting the royal virility, dammit! So, maybe not beheading, but banishment sounds like a bad enough punishment. Not to France as she asks, but to a convent in England/Ireland.
 
The idea that was spinning around in my head was that Anne can't conceive. As stated, she has wasted her youth (to use her own words). So, at first, she and Hal start sleeping together, and finally marriage, but no baby follows. I agree with @desmirelle that it's likely that Norfolk is going to pay her a visit. Whether Anne will accept his advice is another question. She doesn't know she's barren, after all. She might just insist she needs more time.

However, I was under the impression that part of Anne's saving grace - ironically enough - was Katherine. As long as Katherine was still alive, Henry couldn't set her aside without any loss of face. So, Anne might still be safe until January 1536, even if she's already broached the subject of an annulment/retirement to a convent (because who doesn't love the irony of Anne! ending up in a convent (I know in Donizetti's opera, Anna Bolena, she mentions that she might be punished in this way, ICR if she thought so OTL or if this was just authorial license)?). Henry might sign the deed of separation in early 1536, but Anne is going to pay for insulting the royal virility, dammit! So, maybe not beheading, but banishment sounds like a bad enough punishment. Not to France as she asks, but to a convent in England/Ireland.

The only reason Anne slept with Henry was because he'd gone so far in courting her (taking her to France after ennobling her) that she was betting he'd marry her. HOWEVER, she couldn't "give in" while they were in England, not with so eyes watching, so once they return to England, no nookie for him - but he'd managed to get her pregnant during the trip, hence the wedding in January 1533.

That's why I ask if she thought she was pregnant, just told him to get the ring, or had a phantom pregnancy (in which a woman's body does present the pregnancy symptoms but is not pregnant). I think the latter would be from fear of pregnancy (something she wanted to avoid while single to preserve her reputation, such as it was by then), while one of the first two would be more likely.

OTL, Thomas Cranmer was appointed Archbishop of Canterbury in late 1532, but did not officially become the Archbishop until March 1533. He then spent two months dotting i's and crossing t's before pronouncing the marriage to Katherine of Aragon invalid and the Papal dispensation for same in error. So, you've got Anne giving in in November/December 1532, not conceiving, and in a bit a pickle to boot. She's made such a show of her virginity at the English court that if she begins sleeping with him before May 1533 (and a marriage), she IS the whore everyone thinks she is already. (Because everyone will know, the court isn't that big.) But, say she does go on sleeping with him. And she's still not pregnant by May - Katherine conceived right away - would he marry her still? At that point, he can just say "when you conceive I'll marry you and make you Queen in a huge coronation"......

If there is no "pregnancy scare" (for whatever reason), there's no marriage until Cranmer is confirmed as Archbishop of Canterbury and the marriage to Katherine of Aragon is declared null and void in May 1533, that leaves her married in June 1533 - but I don't know that Henry'd give her the coronation until after she gives him an heir. Henry gave her one OTL BECAUSE she was so obviously pregnant.
 
The only reason Anne slept with Henry was because he'd gone so far in courting her (taking her to France after ennobling her) that she was betting he'd marry her. HOWEVER, she couldn't "give in" while they were in England, not with so eyes watching, so once they return to England, no nookie for him - but he'd managed to get her pregnant during the trip, hence the wedding in January 1533.

That's why I ask if she thought she was pregnant, just told him to get the ring, or had a phantom pregnancy (in which a woman's body does present the pregnancy symptoms but is not pregnant). I think the latter would be from fear of pregnancy (something she wanted to avoid while single to preserve her reputation, such as it was by then), while one of the first two would be more likely.

OTL, Thomas Cranmer was appointed Archbishop of Canterbury in late 1532, but did not officially become the Archbishop until March 1533. He then spent two months dotting i's and crossing t's before pronouncing the marriage to Katherine of Aragon invalid and the Papal dispensation for same in error. So, you've got Anne giving in in November/December 1532, not conceiving, and in a bit a pickle to boot. She's made such a show of her virginity at the English court that if she begins sleeping with him before May 1533 (and a marriage), she IS the whore everyone thinks she is already. (Because everyone will know, the court isn't that big.) But, say she does go on sleeping with him. And she's still not pregnant by May - Katherine conceived right away - would he marry her still? At that point, he can just say "when you conceive I'll marry you and make you Queen in a huge coronation"......

If there is no "pregnancy scare" (for whatever reason), there's no marriage until Cranmer is confirmed as Archbishop of Canterbury and the marriage to Katherine of Aragon is declared null and void in May 1533, that leaves her married in June 1533 - but I don't know that Henry'd give her the coronation until after she gives him an heir. Henry gave her one OTL BECAUSE she was so obviously pregnant.

Do you think she'd tell him she is pregnant after they start sleeping together? It's admittedly a rather dark/satiric look at Anne's ambition (since I've read the versions she's a homewrecking virago and Henry's a dupe led by his codpiece, while Katherine and Jane generally come off as innocent as lambs in said tellings). Maybe she genuinely believes she is - I mean, Mary I's irregular periods couldn't have been so unique a thing?
 
Little lesson: Anne had to have had regular cycles to know she was pregnant as soon as she did. She wouldn't have (OTL) told Henry that lie if she didn't have regular cycles. She delivered the first week of September (6th or 7th, if memory serves), which puts the conception around the last week of November 1532 - but she only went into confinement (usually done four to six weeks ahead of the birth by royals) only two weeks before Liz showed up, and mid-November makes more sense - she misses her cycle at the end of November, doesn't have one at the end of December and she's getting morning sickness (and her sister is there); she told Henry she was pregnant around New Year and they married as soon as he could sort it out. Anne was in control of her end of the relationship until she wed. The King (unlike "The Other Boleyn Girl"), wouldn't be raping a woman he wanted to be mother to his son; so, he can only go as far as she lets him. Henry was strange, let's face it. He did the 'courtly love' schtick with Anne until marriage, then expected her to do an about-face and basically be the royal wife Katherine had been raised to be.

Regarding Anne
  • 1. She was sent by Satan to destroy the Holy Roman Catholic Church in England her adultery with ambitious men and her incest with her brother prove it.
  • 2. She was sent by God to midwife the birth of the Church of England, returning the realm to the arms of God and allowing people to see the truth.
  • 3. She was exploited by her family until she realized she had real power and decided to use it.
  • 4. She was the daughter of an ambitious family and supposed to settle a family feud by uniting the squabbling parties, but she hooked up with Henry Percy (already betrothed to another), so she was looking out for herself from the beginning.
  • 5. She was essentially stalked by King Henry VIII. He kept sending her presents, came to visit when she withdrew to Hever, so the girl had less of choice than many imagine. Who do you complain to when the King is forcing his unwanted attentions on you when you don't want to be known as a whore (like your older sister)? She cut the best deal she could with Henry (if you get rid of your 'unlawful' wife, I'll marry you) and paid dearly for it. Yes, she liked the power, but she had no talent for being a wife. Once she became a wife, she was expected to behave as one, and she kept returning to girlfriend mode.
Make your choice, though I'm sure there are other explanations.

Personally, I think she'd have to believe she was pregnant (either through a skipped cycle - from the stress of having given in before marriage - or a phantom pregnancy from the same thing). He marries her and the next day her cycle starts in the first part, or she goes into confinement and there's no baby, like happened to the supposed 'twin' pregnancy of Katherine (when it was probably an infection her body successfully fought off) in the second. The second scenario is more embarrassing to Henry.
 
Personally, I think she'd have to believe she was pregnant (either through a skipped cycle - from the stress of having given in before marriage - or a phantom pregnancy from the same thing). He marries her and the next day her cycle starts in the first part, or she goes into confinement and there's no baby, like happened to the supposed 'twin' pregnancy of Katherine (when it was probably an infection her body successfully fought off) in the second. The second scenario is more embarrassing to Henry.

But either way - whether a stress-caused missed menstrual cycle or phantom pregnancy - she's got right what Empress Eugènie responded to Napoléon III when he asked the way to her heart: "Through the chapel, sire". Henry's now made Anne his wife. And every course she goes through is going to be putting her under still more stress. Now personally, while I would love (just for shit and giggles) someone to do a TL where the pressure makes her crack like the wrong end of a plumber, I've read that stress is the worst thing to attempting to conceive/during a pregnancy. So, Henry's now lawfully bound himself to a woman with no real reason to have done so (I could see him jumping through all sorts of hoops to extricate himself from it - unlike OTL, more maybe like @REICHFURST had happen in their TL, where Henry swore up and down that he had never contracted/even mentioned marrying Anne, so that he could be free to marry a princess when his annulment came through), does he stick it out and hope for the best? Or does he just carry on whistling tunelessly and make as though it didn't happen (Henry's capacity for self-delusion is truly astounding when one considers it)?
 
like happened to the supposed 'twin' pregnancy of Katherine (when it was probably an infection her body successfully fought off) in the second. The second scenario is more embarrassing to Henry.

Which of Katherine's pregnancies was this? Cause this would make an interesting POD for a separate TL?
 
I would think it would almost have to be a phantom pregnancy - two missed cycles is a stretch (but possible); I mean, if you want Henry to tire of her a fake pregnancy is the surest way to do it. OTL, it was humiliating enough to add an 's' to "prince" in the already written birth announcements....to have NO baby to show for it and a confinement complete with the starting ceremony.......the man will give birth to little pink squealy worms (to use my aunt's expression). He would be humiliated internationally and Anne would be in deep doo-doo and under stress to get knocked up ASAP. Even Cranmer's decision on the marriage to Katherine isn't going to help her. All of Europe (even the reformers) are going to be laughing at Henry.
 
I would think it would almost have to be a phantom pregnancy - two missed cycles is a stretch (but possible); I mean, if you want Henry to tire of her a fake pregnancy is the surest way to do it. OTL, it was humiliating enough to add an 's' to "prince" in the already written birth announcements....to have NO baby to show for it and a confinement complete with the starting ceremony.......the man will give birth to little pink squealy worms (to use my aunt's expression). He would be humiliated internationally and Anne would be in deep doo-doo and under stress to get knocked up ASAP. Even Cranmer's decision on the marriage to Katherine isn't going to help her. All of Europe (even the reformers) are going to be laughing at Henry.

Might Anne be headed for a fall before April 1536 here? Or is Katherine still living going to be enough to stay Henry's hand for now?
 
Nobody but Henry and Henry's minions believed the annulment from Cranmer was valid (they might not have said it to his face, but Francis I came first by declining a betrothal with Elizabeth OTL). Because of this (and Henry knows it), Anne won't last after Katherine dies. As soon as Katherine of Aragon is dead, Anne had best be on a boat for France or China or Iceland, because Henry won't take the chance that she'll put up a fight like Katherine did over an annulment. (Which was why I suggested Norfolk & her daddy telling her to ask first.) That (the time it took to get the first annulment) was the motivator for her execution. Henry didn't have the time and wouldn't take the chance, so Cromwell helpfully discovered she was slut - after she married him......
 
Nobody but Henry and Henry's minions believed the annulment from Cranmer was valid (they might not have said it to his face, but Francis I came first by declining a betrothal with Elizabeth OTL). Because of this (and Henry knows it), Anne won't last after Katherine dies. As soon as Katherine of Aragon is dead, Anne had best be on a boat for France or China or Iceland, because Henry won't take the chance that she'll put up a fight like Katherine did over an annulment. (Which was why I suggested Norfolk & her daddy telling her to ask first.) That (the time it took to get the first annulment) was the motivator for her execution. Henry didn't have the time and wouldn't take the chance, so Cromwell helpfully discovered she was slut - after she married him......

Makes sense.

When would be a good time for Norfolk etc to come speak to her, do you think? And what's Henry's move if she asks for a nullification first?
 
If it's the phantom pregnancy, as soon as it's known (to her). Now, at that point, he won't tell her to ask, but he'll tell her "if you're not pregnant - for real - by 1535, think about this" & "if Katherine dies before then, suggest it then"......If she's just not getting pregnant and Katherine is getting ill, he's going to advise her to do around Christmas 1535.

Henry can't really refuse it if she makes the offer publicly. He'll go "Oh, no, my love" initially and then a week or two later, go "Okay". The key (if Katherine has died) is doing it publicly.
 
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