WI: Andrew Jackson is court martialed in 1818.

I read that President Monroe was advised by some to court martial Andrew Jackson for his unauthorized attack on Pensacola. What do people think the potential affects might have been of that? Jackson was very popular; would that have caused problems for Monroe
in the 1820 election? Would Jackson‘s conviction have kept him permanently out of politics?

Anyone have any thoughts?
 
If there is serious opposition to Monroe in1820, would it come from disgruntled Jackson lovers in the south, or the old federalists in the north? Even if Monroe still wins the election in 1820, perhaps getting more political pushback would make him alter his position on the Missouri issue. But where would the pushback come from, the north, or the south?
 
Charles Pinckney, the former governor of South Carolina, rouses the south by demanding the release of the imprisoned Jackson, and criticizing Monroe for not seizing the chance of gaining Florida from the Spanish. In 1820 he gains more support by arguing strongly against any compromise with abolitionists over the Missouri issue, demanding its admission to the union as a slave state. Monroe, fearful of losing the votes of the south, caves to these demands, but this only stirs up the resentment of abolitionists in the north. In the 1820 election Monroe faces challenges from De Witt Clinton in the north, and Charles Pinckney in the south. Who wins? What happens when Jackson is released?
 
Charles Pinckney, the former governor of South Carolina, rouses the south by demanding the release of the imprisoned Jackson, and criticizing Monroe for not seizing the chance of gaining Florida from the Spanish. In 1820 he gains more support by arguing strongly against any compromise with abolitionists over the Missouri issue, demanding its admission to the union as a slave state. Monroe, fearful of losing the votes of the south, caves to these demands, but this only stirs up the resentment of abolitionists in the north. In the 1820 election Monroe faces challenges from De Witt Clinton in the north, and Charles Pinckney in the south. Who wins? What happens when Jackson is released?
Monroe wins...Virginia. Clinton sweeps the North and split votes give him enough pluralities in the South to deliver him and his new "People's Party" the election. The Federalists get a revival when Pinckney carries more than one southern state and maybe something in the North. Is JQA his running mate?
 
This Charles Pinckney was a different beast from his cousin Charles Cotesworth Pinckney. His views seem more aligned with back-country South Carolina, not the elites. Something like a proto-Calhoun (late period!). I don‘t think someone like Adams is going to be drawn to him, but plenty of old Federalists in North Carolina and Maryland are. I can see him winning most of the south plus Maryland.
 
Monroe wins...Virginia. Clinton sweeps the North and split votes give him enough pluralities in the South to deliver him and his new "People's Party" the election. The Federalists get a revival when Pinckney carries more than one southern state and maybe something in the North. Is JQA his running mate?
I think JQA remains loyal to Monroe in this election, but runs for the People’s Party in 1828.
 
1818: Following the advice of John C. Calhoun , his Secretary of War, President Monroe has Andrew Jackson court-martialed for his unauthorized attack on the Spanish at Pensacola. He is sentenced to three years. Charles Pinckney of South Carolina takes up Jackson’s cause, berating the President for missing the chance to gain Florida from the Spanish.

1820: In February the Missouri crisis emerges, with northern abolitionists demanding a free state, and southerners demanding a slave state. Monroe, fearing the loss of votes to the emerging Pinckney-Jackson faction in the south, firmly supports allowing Missouri to enter the union as a slave state. This in turn causes a backlash in the north, with DeWitt Clinton clearly positioning himself to run against Monroe. Pinckney’s attacks upon Calhoun mean Calhoun supports his president even more strongly (he isn’t going to become a States Rights man in this timeline).

The election is the most divisive and sectional ever, with no attempt at any regional balance with regards to running mates.
Monroe and Calhoun portray themselves as the only ones who can save the Union from civil war. Perhaps they are. But they lose horribly.

The National Democrat Party of Pinckney/Jackson (incarcerated) win South Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky, Louisiana , Mississippi, Alabama, and the new state of Missouri.

The Unionist Party of Monroe/Calhoun win Virginia.

The People’s Party of DeWitt Clinton / Rufus King sweep everything else.
 
1818: Following the advice of John C. Calhoun , his Secretary of War, President Monroe has Andrew Jackson court-martialed for his unauthorized attack on the Spanish at Pensacola. He is sentenced to three years. Charles Pinckney of South Carolina takes up Jackson’s cause, berating the President for missing the chance to gain Florida from the Spanish.

1820: In February the Missouri crisis emerges, with northern abolitionists demanding a free state, and southerners demanding a slave state. Monroe, fearing the loss of votes to the emerging Pinckney-Jackson faction in the south, firmly supports allowing Missouri to enter the union as a slave state. This in turn causes a backlash in the north, with DeWitt Clinton clearly positioning himself to run against Monroe. Pinckney’s attacks upon Calhoun mean Calhoun supports his president even more strongly (he isn’t going to become a States Rights man in this timeline).

The election is the most divisive and sectional ever, with no attempt at any regional balance with regards to running mates.
Monroe and Calhoun portray themselves as the only ones who can save the Union from civil war. Perhaps they are. But they lose horribly.

The National Democrat Party of Pinckney/Jackson (incarcerated) win South Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky, Louisiana , Mississippi, Alabama, and the new state of Missouri.

The Unionist Party of Monroe/Calhoun win Virginia.

The People’s Party of DeWitt Clinton / Rufus King sweep everything else.
So that's an EC win for People's Party, correct?
 
So that's an EC win for People's Party, correct?
Yeah, although my electoral college math was a bit off. I didn’t realize Alabama and Mississippi weren’t voting states yet.

DeWitt Clinton (Populist) : 137 electoral votes
Charles Pinckney (National Democrat) : 55 electoral votes
James Monroe (Union) : 25 electoral votes
 
Upon his release from prison, Andrew Jackson stepped into a world much changed. Men normally timid by nature were talking boldly of civil war. Charles Pinckney had died suddenly, and people were looking to him now, hanging on his words like he were some kind of oracle.

In the back room of a hotel in Savannah, he sat at a table near the fireplace, drinking a bourbon that had been aged for eight years, and had been poured out for the first time tonight. The air was thick with tobacco smoke, and the walls were covered with old yellowed maps of The South.

”Hickory! Hickory!” They shouted it like it was a battle cry, eyes afire with the promise of glorious battle , and cheap whiskey. He saw these men as they were. He saw old men, brittle men, vainglorious men, and perhaps some who, when standing singly in the face of great odds, would prove to be cowards. But he also knew that if they stood together, they would be strong. And if the order came from Old Hickory, they would fight.

But another voice spoke to him. He thought of the sacrifices that had been made to create this union of states, of all the blood shed. He thought of the men who had stood together at New Orleans.

He slowly stood, looking each man in the eye, and spoke in a firm voice.

”Gentlemen.”
 
What do you think of the chances of Jackson leading the south in a civil war in the 1820s? ASB? Or does he turn to politics? Or bourbon?
 
If Alabama and Mississippi weren’t voting states yet, then neither were Indiana nor Illinois. Their admissions were paired.

TBH, I think all 4 were voting by 1820.
 
Yeah, although my electoral college math was a bit off. I didn’t realize Alabama and Mississippi weren’t voting states yet.

DeWitt Clinton (Populist) : 137 electoral votes
Charles Pinckney (National Democrat) : 55 electoral votes
James Monroe (Union) : 25 electoral votes
Alabama and Mississippi were voting states during the 1820 election. (Alabama becoming a state in 1819, and Mississippi in 1817.) Doesn't change the overall result, it's only another 5 electoral votes (Mississippi's third elector died before voting and they were unable to put forward another one, so only two votes were cast.)
 
So, the People's Party slave states that voted for the electoral victor are Maryland, Delaware, and North Carolina - interesting.

There's bad blood between Monroe personally, his Virginians and his loyalists (like Calhoun) and Jackson. If there's a secession, are all the National Democratic, Pinckney-voting states up for it? Doesn't seem like Virginia would be up for it, or like it would be up for any association with Pinckney-voting states - its politicians may want to broker an old school compromise that is firmly anti-secessionist and pro-Unionist but that voids most of the People's Party's substantive, particularly anything the PP may say about limiting slavery expansion, rushing admission of northern states, or anything else that looks like favoritism to the northern section.

In a secession-based Civil War, the industrial advantage of the north over the south is not as built up as it would be four decades later. Nor is the national transportation infrastructure, especially inland. There is very little long-haul rail.

It appears that Florida is also still sitting there, Spanish. Britain is trending abolitionist, and abolished the international trade, but hasn't done the final deed yet with West Indian emancipation.

What happens?
 
So, the People's Party slave states that voted for the electoral victor are Maryland, Delaware, and North Carolina - interesting.

There's bad blood between Monroe personally, his Virginians and his loyalists (like Calhoun) and Jackson. If there's a secession, are all the National Democratic, Pinckney-voting states up for it? Doesn't seem like Virginia would be up for it, or like it would be up for any association with Pinckney-voting states - its politicians may want to broker an old school compromise that is firmly anti-secessionist and pro-Unionist but that voids most of the People's Party's substantive, particularly anything the PP may say about limiting slavery expansion, rushing admission of northern states, or anything else that looks like favoritism to the northern section.

In a secession-based Civil War, the industrial advantage of the north over the south is not as built up as it would be four decades later. Nor is the national transportation infrastructure, especially inland. There is very little long-haul rail.

It appears that Florida is also still sitting there, Spanish. Britain is trending abolitionist, and abolished the international trade, but hasn't done the final deed yet with West Indian emancipation.

What happens?
There are going to be some in Britain who want take Florida before anyone else does, and I don”t see the Spanish keeping it for long. If the USA ends up taking it, it might be the spark that sets off civil war.

The northern states have all the power and unity at the moment, but those slave states in the north like Virginia are going to make sure the union doesn’t go full abolitionist.

If there is a civil war, it’s going to be led by Jackson. I think that’s going to affect which states join the south; the western states are going to be more likely. A less industrialized north will probably mean it isn’t going to be able to grind out victory after a long war of attrition, so if the south has the chops to keep fighting, the north may, just, give in and let them go.

So it all seems to depend on Jackson’s decision; Union, War, or Bourbon.
 
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