WI: an eastern Roman Empire based around Mesopotamia.

The POD would be Rome holding onto the conquests of Trajan.
The empire is divided earlier, and the east controls most of the eastern provinces up to Anatolia.

How would this empire deal with islam, the turks, etc.
 

Albert.Nik

Banned
So you would want Iraq,Western Iran,Kurdistan regions,Armenia,Georgia,Levant,Egypt,Caucasus,Central and Eastern Anatolia in the ERE and everything else is controlled by the WRE? So the capital probably would be on the Levant or the Mesopotamia to be safe. Armenians,Caucasians,Scythians/Alans/Sarmatians(Ossetians),Western Iranians and Georgians would be considered Roman along with the OTL Levantines,Mesopotamians and Egyptians.

This empire would be diverse,stable and richer as I see it. It would pour incredible wealth for the Empire and provide protection against,Germanic and Slavic invaders so they are now in the WRE and not ERE. But ERE will have to face the Turks and the Mongols later. Islam could be butterflied in the Northern Middle East(Iraq,Syria,Lebanon,Palestine,Turkey,Iran,Kurdistan and Caucasus. Instead,it could expand into Africa but wouldn't be as large as OTL. Both WRE and ERE will endure for a longer time in this timeline. Middle East and Eastern Europe would be very different from OTL. Hungary could end up existing where it is whereas the Slavic countries borders could be butterflied.
 

Albert.Nik

Banned
Iran could basically end up becoming two parts. Christian West and the Zoroastrian East which would contain even parts of Afghanistan.
 

Albert.Nik

Banned
Tbilisi has the best Geography in terms of connectivity,protection and climate. So a wise Roman planner would choose it for the new capital.
 
Tbilisi has the best Geography in terms of connectivity,protection and climate. So a wise Roman planner would choose it for the new capital.
Connectivity? It is close to the furthest you can get in this hypothetical ERE from the rich Mesopotamian provinces and the all important Mare Nostrum.
 

Albert.Nik

Banned
Connectivity? It is close to the furthest you can get in this hypothetical ERE from the rich Mesopotamian provinces and the all important Mare Nostrum.
The advantage is that Tbilisi is surrounded by Mountains and the only way to enter it would be through a Mountain pass. Some pass could be constructed called "Via Kartulia" or "Via Kaukashia" or something. The pass could be well gaurded against the Persians who could keep attacking this empire and also the Arabs. Even the Central Asian invaders would later find it difficult to get here. In Winter months,attacking this region could become highly difficult giving these Eastern Romans an upper hand. Instead,forces could concentrate on sensitive borders like the border in Central Iran bordering the Zoroastrian regions of Persia or Southern regions bordering the Muslim Arabs. Georgians and Armenians had been friendly with Romans from what it seems so this doesn't have much problems. Otherwise,a capital in Armenia or Anatolia would also turn out fine.
 
The advantage is that Tbilisi is surrounded by Mountains and the only way to enter it would be through a Mountain pass.
Your well guarded mountain fortress is worthless in the case of war because it does exactly nothing to protect the all-important provinces to the south. And it is equally worthless during peace time because it seperated it is on the very periphery of the Roman and Persian world.
 
So you would want Iraq,Western Iran,Kurdistan regions,Armenia,Georgia,Levant,Egypt,Caucasus,Central and Eastern Anatolia in the ERE and everything else is controlled by the WRE? So the capital probably would be on the Levant or the Mesopotamia to be safe. Armenians,Caucasians,Scythians/Alans/Sarmatians(Ossetians),Western Iranians and Georgians would be considered Roman along with the OTL Levantines,Mesopotamians and Egyptians.

This empire would be diverse,stable and richer as I see it. It would pour incredible wealth for the Empire and provide protection against,Germanic and Slavic invaders so they are now in the WRE and not ERE. But ERE will have to face the Turks and the Mongols later. Islam could be butterflied in the Northern Middle East(Iraq,Syria,Lebanon,Palestine,Turkey,Iran,Kurdistan and Caucasus. Instead,it could expand into Africa but wouldn't be as large as OTL. Both WRE and ERE will endure for a longer time in this timeline. Middle East and Eastern Europe would be very different from OTL. Hungary could end up existing where it is whereas the Slavic countries borders could be butterflied.
What would be the name of a capital in Mesopotamia?

How about language? Would this empire remain greek?

I'd think christianity would have more influence from the east.
Especially monophysitism, since if I'm not mistaken, this was the brand of christianity that was dominant in most of the middle east.
 

Albert.Nik

Banned
What would be the name of a capital in Mesopotamia?

How about language? Would this empire remain greek?

I'd think christianity would have more influence from the east.
Especially, monophysitism.
Obviously,the Empire would be Multi Ethnic and Multi lingual. Georgian,Armenian,Greek,Latin,Egyptian,Aramaic,Arabic,Caucasian languages,Persian,Kurdish,Anatolian in some pockets,Hebrew,Scythian,Alanic,etc would be spoken in provinces. Overall,Greek,I think would have an edge as it has a long history in these regions. Name of the Capital,I think will be decided by the Emperors,the timing,etc. As I said,there are many regions where the Capital could come.
Christianity need not necessarily have influences from the East. In this timeline,you could have the Anatolia and Caucasus follow the Trinitian version whereas other regions like OTL would follow monophysitism. Newly conquered Persian regions could follow Trinitian version again. You could have the Christianity look different. First of all,Christianity of our version rose to prominence after the Crisis of the Third century. Here,without that,Christianity could itself look very different.
 
What would be the name of a capital in Mesopotamia?

How about language? Would this empire remain greek?

I'd think christianity would have more influence from the east.
Especially monophysitism, since if I'm not mistaken, this was the brand of christianity that was dominant in most of the middle east.

Greek would probably remain the official language, due to its prestige and the fact that there were lots of Greek-speakers, even in Mesopotamia.

Monophysitism was indeed dominant in the East IOTL, although given that the POD is in the second century it's not guaranteed that Monophysitism will ever become a significant force in the first place, and even if it does, it might not be as dominant, might be dominant in different areas, etc.
 
This hypothetical tiny far eastern Rome sounds like a wonderful conquest for the Sassanids. Hell, even the Parthians, since the PoD is apparently far back enough for them.
 
This is going to escalate the conflict between the ERE and whoever controls persia. This either ends horribly for the ERE or it may end much better. The ERE can't afford to send the army on anything that even resembles the reconquest of the west because of how close the capital is to persia. Because of this it could work out for them better in the long run by redirecting the resources used in reconquesting the west into checking persia. A fair amount of Persian land even today has many differences linguistically or ethnically and might be good foundations for creating puppet states to prevent a united persia if they can rip them apart if not this might only get as far as establishing bufferstates between them and a remaining persia. Alternatively assuming a carefully crafted wank scenario, as a largely greek state they might try to chase alaxanders legacy up to the border of India.
 
As a postclassical Mesopotamian state, the Eastern Roman Empire in Syria and Iraq would develop much like the Abbasid Caliphate, although it face its existential challenges earlier (around the time of the Arab expansion). If Rome-in-Mesopotamia survives the Arab expansion, then it will be more viable long-term than the Abbasids because of a more homogenous Hellenistic and Aramaic cultural situation and would have a more conventional standing army.
 
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