WI an anarcho-communist country was established?

For some reason you keep asking for comments on how such a revolution could be achieved and what such an Anarchist state would be like but when we say that it would be nasty, brutish and short lived you ignore our comments and repeat the original question with a minor twist.

The is no shortage of countries where central authority has disappeared and the people are struggling along as you describe, why not go there and explain to the locals how they are so much better off than the rest of us?

Quoted for truth.

If you are looking for idealistic revolutionaries Russia in 1917 is a perfect place to start. Look at Lenin, Trotsky, and Stalin they collectively put millions of idealistic revolutionaries to death all in the name of idealistic revolution. In Russia there were many willing to kill and die for their ideology, it that there will be others that have different ideologies that are willing to kill and die.
 
For some reason you keep asking for comments on how such a revolution could be achieved and what such an Anarchist state would be like but when we say that it would be nasty, brutish and short lived you ignore our comments and repeat the original question with a minor twist.

The is no shortage of countries where central authority has disappeared and the people are struggling along as you describe, why not go there and explain to the locals how they are so much better off than the rest of us?

I suspect that in a nuclear war scenario that "Anarcho-Communism" would have considerable sticking power.

But I'm not seeing how this form of government would survive in the face of superior options: It isn't optimized for any real economic purpose, and is the sort of transitional government that people are willing to trade in for nearly everything else.

A world of rough parity between all and no ability to divide into have and have nots is a world that's very poor and broken down. Russia turning into essentially warlord chaos and then getting steamrolled by the Poles (to say NOTHING of the Japanese and the Western Armies coming shortly later) may well do better for its people than Stalin. But their position in history is that of the world's doormat.
 

TheCrow__

Banned
Well like BlueMax stated there were great revolutionary leaders at the time in Russia. And they coerced the people to revolt. I'm simply wanting to change it around so that Lenin will start it with out the brutal central government that was created through their form of communism. And I keep asking cause I want you to elaborate more so I can try to come up with a conclusion on my own. Yes, I could take your word that it would'nt work but what good would that do me. I would not learn a thing. So please explain, so as I can come up with my own answer. Mostly everyone as just beat me with the same old things people can't work together, their needs to protection, etc. But have I not atleast came up with some descent proposals to fix these problems. But I need more information so as to make it semi-perfect.
 
Well like BlueMax stated there were great revolutionary leaders at the time in Russia. And they coerced the people to revolt. I'm simply wanting to change it around so that Lenin will start it with out the brutal central government that was created through their form of communism. And I keep asking cause I want you to elaborate more so I can try to come up with a conclusion on my own. Yes, I could take your word that it would'nt work but what good would that do me. I would not learn a thing. So please explain, so as I can come up with my own answer. Mostly everyone as just beat me with the same old things people can't work together, their needs to protection, etc. But have I not atleast came up with some descent proposals to fix these problems. But I need more information so as to make it semi-perfect.

You do not like the dictatorial state of Lenin, right?

Why not try federal democracy, like my suggestion for a successful 1905 Revolution?

Anarcho-communism is not a failed system per say. But simply the transition is too difficult for that time and place. Not only difficult but such a change would invite other powers and internal strife. So much so that the system could no longer exist.
 

Cook

Banned
Well like …stated there were great revolutionary leaders at the time in Russia.

If you are looking for idealistic revolutionaries Russia in 1917 is a perfect place to start. Look at Lenin, Trotsky, and Stalin they collectively put millions of idealistic revolutionaries to death all in the name of idealistic revolution

Tobit is saying that Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin et al were idealistic, not that they were great. I think he’d agree that great is not a description that should be applied to men responsible for so many deaths.

And they coerced the people to revolt.


They held a Coup and toppled the Provisional Government. It wasn’t hard because they were at the tail end of four of the worst years of war in Russian history. They promised Peace and Bread and besides, they’d already seized control of the government.

I'm simply wanting to change it around so that Lenin will start it with out the brutal central government that was created through their form of communism. .


So you want him to topple the elected Government of Alexander Kerensky in a bloody Coup, and then somehow become a warm and fuzzy character?

I would not learn a thing. So please explain, so as I can come up with my own answer.

I’m getting too old for this. What did your last slave die of?
 

TheCrow__

Banned
Tobit is saying that Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin et al were idealistic, not that they were great. I think he’d agree that great is not a description that should be applied to men responsible for so many deaths.



They held a Coup and toppled the Provisional Government. It wasn’t hard because they were at the tail end of four of the worst years of war in Russian history. They promised Peace and Bread and besides, they’d already seized control of the government.



So you want him to topple the elected Government of Alexander Kerensky in a bloody Coup, and then somehow become a warm and fuzzy character?



I’m getting too old for this. What did your last slave die of?

A. I know what he said. I just interpreted it a different way. I was saying that they were great at starting the revolution.

B. Then why could'nt they start the same Revolution under a different ideology. And if they were anarcho-communist they could fulfil those promises, not easily by far.

C. No, I'm not saying the coup will be bloody. Though it could be I have not got that far yet. I merely said the Revolution will be. By that I mean the coming war after the initial coup.

D. Sorry, I don't understand what your asking here. Are you actually asking a question or are you just being critical.
 
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TheCrow__

Banned
Blue Max while I admire your idea it's just not what I'm looking for. If I seem stuborn it's because I am very much. But this is alternate history. You say it won't work, ok. Well since this is alternate history what could happen to make it work. What could be changed in history to make it happen at the time. That's all I'm trying to do.
 
This horse is dead, the stick is broken, my arm weary
yet I look into its eye and it whispers to me: beat me again...

my fingers twitch out of shear habit,
but my body is weak and my mind is now set on walking away.

Good bye thread, I am off to another.
 

TheCrow__

Banned
This horse is dead, the stick is broken, my arm weary
yet I look into its eye and it whispers to me: beat me again...

my fingers twitch out of shear habit,
but my body is weak and my mind is now set on walking away.

Good bye thread, I am off to another.

My bad I made that a reply to Blue Max it was intended for you. But I'm sorry if you feel that way I believe I have a point.
 

TheCrow__

Banned
So, I am currently working on a research paper that is a biography of Peter Kropotkin. In my process of researching I've read alot of his memoires and letters as well I've already read a couple of his books. I did this as a way to also start this up as a tl. I plan on finishing this paper first but once I've accomplished that. I will begin this tl with a memoire or journal entry by Kropotkin talking of how him and Lenin have been traveling through the newly revolted Russia helping the people and workers to organize funcitional self sustainable communes. Also speaking to them about anarchism and how the state is just another exploiter of the people. The reason I choose to make Lenin be an associate and student to Kropotkin is because through what OTL taught us is that Lenin knew how to speak to the people. Kropotkin's works though were more for an intelectual sphere. I read where Kropotkin said he wished he could find a way to speak to the actual workers and peasantry better. That would be Lenin's purpose in this revolution.
 
You would need to have central soviets, or local governments, rule their respective areas, and not a national government in Moscow or St. Petersburg.
 

TheCrow__

Banned
Yeah, I know been reading still working on that draft. Flush you'll be the first to read it if you want I'll PM you. It's cool if you won't but I'd like you to if your as good as you say at Russian history. Be nitpicky and give constructive criticism alright.
 
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