WI: American Communism

Ok, so, assume that Karl Marx either was'nt born, died before he could make any real splash or simply did'nt believe in what he did OTL.

Now assume that the economic equivalent of Communism was developed by an American in the 1890's and took on a more socially liberal, non-authoritarian, though revolutionary, character.


What effects would this have for the world, and would this allow or cause Communism to be more popular in America?
 

Sachyriel

Banned
You're talking about the new world of the America to the Europeans, why would you call it the same thing? Smacks like it's OTL-wanking...

...and if you have communism, can anarchy still oppose it?
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
You could concievably have William Jennings Bryan's brand of political and economic populism become stronger or mutate into a sort of pseudo-Marxist philosophy. However, such a system would most likely be rather conservative on a social level (very religious, prohibitionist, though pro-suffragate) and vehemently anti-atheistic.
 
You're talking about the new world of the America to the Europeans, why would you call it the same thing? Smacks like it's OTL-wanking...

Well, Communism is a pretty likely term, I mean Communalism already exists, and it is an idea based on common control of the economcy for the common good.

Also, deos'nt Anarchy pre-date OTL Communism?
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
Well, Communism is a pretty likely term, I mean Communalism already exists, and it is an idea based on common control of the economcy for the common good.

Also, deos'nt Anarchy pre-date OTL Communism?


Technically, but it developed as a true philosophy literally at the same time as Marxism. In fact, Marx and Bakhunin were fierce personal rivals throughout their lives.
 

Sachyriel

Banned
Well, Communism is a pretty likely term, I mean Communalism already exists, and it is an idea based on common control of the economcy for the common good.

Also, deos'nt Anarchy pre-date OTL Communism?

No, it's just the language with you speak has all the public nuclear weapons in this 'new world' hemisphere, so I'm not too sure English would be more dominant than Chinese.
 
In the TL I'm planning, Abraham Lincoln takes a dramatic turn to the left during his life. He becomes the timeline's equivalent to Marx. His brand of communism is more democratic and egalitarian, rather than revolutionary and authoritarian. So it develops a wider appeal in the United States than communism IOTL.
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
In the TL I'm planning, Abraham Lincoln takes a dramatic turn to the left during his life. He becomes the timeline's equivalent to Marx. His brand of communism is more democratic and egalitarian, rather than revolutionary and authoritarian. So it develops a wider appeal in the United States than communism IOTL.

And lo, upon a craggy outcropping in the accursed mountains of Southern California, the bearded face of Harry Turtledove tears itself away from the half-eaten corpse of a freshly caught coyote, gazes up at the pale face of the moon, and smiles.

:D
 
No, it's just the language with you speak has all the public nuclear weapons in this 'new world' hemisphere, so I'm not too sure English would be more dominant than Chinese.

Well, the idea is that it's started in the United States, where the primary language is English..
 
You could concievably have William Jennings Bryan's brand of political and economic populism become stronger or mutate into a sort of pseudo-Marxist philosophy. However, such a system would most likely be rather conservative on a social level (very religious, prohibitionist, though pro-suffragate) and vehemently anti-atheistic.

I think something like this is very plausible. Such an American Communism would probably take an idealized view of the founding generation and claim that Enlightenment liberals like Jefferson and Franklin would have been on their side. They'd argue that their party's policy was to restore revolutionary-era American values of cooperation and patriotism in contrast to the selfishness and individualism of industrial capitalism.
 
In a TL/AAR I'm writing at the minute about Marx in America, my imagined post-revolution Socialist America would indeed parade the icons of the First Revolution, however if there's one brand of thought from the period that seems to sit well with such a hard-left idea its Hamilton's image of the American Empire, with its ideas of spreading liberty and the citizen-army it wont take much to twist it into the International Proletarian Revolution, starting in the New World, showing the Old World the future of humanity etc.
 

wormyguy

Banned
For various reasons, it's nearly impossible to make Communism attractive to Americans. Maybe if Franco-British intervention in the Civil War turns it into a devastating 10-year-long conflict that destroys large portions of the north as well as the south, or something along those lines.
 
And lo, upon a craggy outcropping in the accursed mountains of Southern California, the bearded face of Harry Turtledove tears itself away from the half-eaten corpse of a freshly caught coyote, gazes up at the pale face of the moon, and smiles.

:D

Lovely image. LOL.
 

Faraday Cage

In a TL/AAR I'm writing at the minute about Marx in America, my imagined post-revolution Socialist America would indeed parade the icons of the First Revolution, however if there's one brand of thought from the period that seems to sit well with such a hard-left idea its Hamilton's image of the American Empire, with its ideas of spreading liberty and the citizen-army it wont take much to twist it into the International Proletarian Revolution, starting in the New World, showing the Old World the future of humanity etc.

But didn't the ACW kill the concept of "a second American Revolution" ? The Confederates tried to use the Founding Fathers to justify their actions as well, didn't they?
 
But didn't the ACW kill the concept of "a second American Revolution" ? The Confederates tried to use the Founding Fathers to justify their actions as well, didn't they?

While it could be argued that it did, the ACW wasn't a classic civil war so much as a secession attempt. The rhetoric could still be easily used to justify a Communist Revolution, as has been noted here and elsewhere American symbolism is often linked with ideas and ideals that fall neatly into line with Communist rhetoric.
 
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