WI: America never enters WWI

Chilperic

Banned
Another timeline I am thinking of doing, I just wanted to know if it was plausible if the Kaiser didnt send the Zimmerman Telegram, halted unrestricted submarine warfare etc.?
 
If a stalemate ends WW I, Britain and France will have even more political instbility than OTL. The incredible loss of life and treasure weakened both empires. Revanchist elements in both countries would likely become important. Possible Facist-type governments in the late twenties, or early Thirties might also happen. OTL wartime governments including the US had fascistic elements in their mobilization efforts. Given a peace of exhaustion, the Allies would have increasing political polarization, labor unrest and economic dislocation. Not a pretty picture. Possibly a Great Depression that occurs earlier than OTL
 

Germaniac

Donor
If the United states does not enter the war Ludendorff will probably launch one last mass offensive in the fall. This Offensive will have a much more centralized goal of taking Calais and Dunkirk in the north and compiegne in the South. The germans make gains, capturing calais, they are able to retain the borders which they just gained. Revolution breaks out in France, Germany, and Ireland. (15,000 people attend an anti-conscription meeting in Dublin and The british, fearing yet another rebellion like two years before, open fire on the crowds containing many women and children.) Germans have stabalized the east and many of these new governments were working quite well, as opposed to the german goverment. The Three main powers Germany, Britain, and France Agree to a ceasefire. The Three return to pre war boundries. The germans agree to give up its colonial empire and agree to a tonnage boundry in comparison to the size of the British, as do the french. Alsace Lorraine votes to become an independent nation, instead of staying part of the german empire or joing the french republic. The three also in secret agree to support german and german puppet states intevention in the USSR. German Dominance of Eastern Europe is assured, while contentental power sways in favor of Britain-France
 
If the United states does not enter the war Ludendorff will probably launch one last mass offensive in the fall. This Offensive will have a much more centralized goal of taking Calais and Dunkirk in the north and compiegne in the South. The germans make gains, capturing calais, they are able to retain the borders which they just gained. Revolution breaks out in France, Germany, and Ireland. (15,000 people attend an anti-conscription meeting in Dublin and The british, fearing yet another rebellion like two years before, open fire on the crowds containing many women and children.) Germans have stabalized the east and many of these new governments were working quite well, as opposed to the german goverment. The Three main powers Germany, Britain, and France Agree to a ceasefire. The Three return to pre war boundries. The germans agree to give up its colonial empire and agree to a tonnage boundry in comparison to the size of the British, as do the french. Alsace Lorraine votes to become an independent nation, instead of staying part of the german empire or joing the french republic. The three also in secret agree to support german and german puppet states intevention in the USSR. German Dominance of Eastern Europe is assured, while contentental power sways in favor of Britain-France

No, the Germans still lose. (And 1918 negotiations for anything less than total surrender? Yeah, that'll be an easy sell back home. :rolleyes:)

Ludendorff's offensives had run out of steam before the Americans even showed up. the Ottomans are still going to lose, A-H is still going to disintegrate, Germany is still at the end of its economic tether. If and when the Allies ride out Ludendorff's offencives, the CPs are boned. The war will probably last into 1919, but Germany will lose. At the peace, it's also screwed - none of this self-determination stuff, France is getting the Rhineland, Italy's getting Dalmatia, and the League? Don't make me laugh. God knows what'll happen to Germany after five years of war. Red revolution, probably.
 

boredatwork

Banned
define enter WW1 - are you referring only to no doughboys, or are you envisioning a WI where the US take neutrality seriously - treating everybody the same (IE: insisting on transit rights to german ports, or refusing to trade with any of the combatants entirely). Similarly for financing/loans.

If the US is trading with germany - the starvation and supply issues are greatly eased.

If the US isn't trading with anyone - the Entente has some greater supply issues than in OTL, not massively greater, but noticeable.

The bigger issue might well be financing.
 

Chilperic

Banned
define enter WW1 - are you referring only to no doughboys, or are you envisioning a WI where the US take neutrality seriously - treating everybody the same (IE: insisting on transit rights to german ports, or refusing to trade with any of the combatants entirely). Similarly for financing/loans.

If the US is trading with germany - the starvation and supply issues are greatly eased.

If the US isn't trading with anyone - the Entente has some greater supply issues than in OTL, not massively greater, but noticeable.

The bigger issue might well be financing.

I mean they still favour the Allies, but dont send troops.
 

MrP

Banned
If I weren't so busy I'd consider compiling a list of all the threads that deal with this topic. Usually, of course, I'd be too lazy to consider it, but there we are.
 
There are many issues not defined. The lack of US entry requires an explanation as to why it didn't happen. Did Germany not resume unrestricted submarine warfare or perhaps not start it in the first place? Did the UK do something to upset the US?

The lack of the US changes a great many things for both the Central Powers and the Western Entente. Britain and France run into some rather nasty money problems in late 1917 / 1918 without the US Treasury to provide backing for additional loans; the British and French continue to buy but the cost of doing so goes up rather markedly. Next the Germans have other options open to them. I suspect they don’t put the primary focus in Northern France in spring 1918. Instead they go for secondary theaters, Italy and Balkans.

If Italy is hit by something like Michael in the spring they are going to collapse. D'Esperey is contained in the southern Balkans. The question is what happens in Northern France? I suspect the result is the allies make some gains but the Germans counter attack later on. Winter of 1918-19 is harsh in Germany but better than in 1917-18 the problem is A-H; it is odds are a basket case still with Italy out of the war they don’t really have to do anything either.

Michael
 
The "Michael" offensive in March 1918 was launched in order to reach a decision before the Americans arrived in substantial numbers.
No Americans, no "Michael". The Germans concentrate on tidying up the East, pushing Italy out of the war and stabilising the Balkans. By mid-1918 eastern Europe has been satisfactorily stabilised, so that the autumn harvest can be used to fill empty German and Austrian stomaches.
In the west, there are sufficient German reserves to answer any Entente offensive à la Cambrai.
Both camps are now scraping the bottom of their manpower barrels. Entente tanks score some successes, after which the Germans decide to launch their own tank building programme. 1919 sees both camps equally equipped and utterly exhausted.
In Germany, a kind of revolution happens that makes Wilhelm II. a constitutional monarch and brings to power a government formed by socialists, centre and progressives. The new government of chancellor Eberth offers a peace "without annexations and contributions" to the Entente.
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
Anything could happen. Germany going under due to economic collapse, Germany pushing out France from the war after peace at the Eastern front (no war morale boost to the Entente troops, due to the US promise of reinforcements). Still, even if Germany would be able to defeat the French the British are something completely different. However if the US don't react to the submarine warfare (quite ASB), Germany could seriously hur the British economy, and it would more or less be about whose economy collapse first.
 
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