WI: America Loves Slavery

A butler/house servant is not inherently cheap or productive to the owner anyways... economic reality doesn't matter here.

Economics suggest private jets are highly inefficient and having two for the same owner is simply silly. I remember this one guy who lost $30 billion in the American real estate bubble and in an interview said he assured his wife they were still stupidly rich and didn't need to conserve money. His wife won the argument and he sold all but one of his jets, which he left as "just in case" because they take commercial first class as much as possible instead of the private jet.

That was a tangent. My point being, if something is legal and helpful to the rich, it can exist regardless of how efficient it is.
 
After 1819? (don;t recall exact date) slave importation was illegal. All growth after that is from natural population growth. It has nothing to do with the cotton gin. People were born slaves and slave owners found a use for them. As long as the slave population can be replenished as fast as the free, the balance would exist

American slave economy is doomed by the continued immigration of freemen from Europe and the lack of slave imports. As long as there are enough slaves for the general population to benefit the economy can continue

A slave America would take advantage of its hegemony in the Western Hemisphere and seize all the slaves it could use from the Carribean Islands. A slave owning America would have found t he ideological justifications needed.
 
Suppose that all 13 of the founding colonies loved slavery. Sure, the South had farms (I learned last week some wheat farmers had slaves profitably) and later they would get cotton. But many there are many other uses for slaves, such as household servants. The North might not use them as much as the South, but they will have them. Might need a POD as early as 1760s to get this change in public opinion, but let's just say whatever the POD is, slavery is viewed favorable on ideological reasons. Let's just suppose that at least until 1860s, at least 75% of the voting population in every single state views slavery as something good for society, possibly longer if no forces shift public opinion. Not a bad thing, not an obsolete institution, not a necessary evil, but good. Any free black who is talented or gifted is viewed as an exception, just as a tall female doesn't indicate the tallness of them in general.

And any non-white can become a slave if they are born while their parents are defaulting on debt (I think other civilizations had a combination of debt and chattel bondage?)

So... what happens? I mean, obviously some outside force is going to shift public opinion away from slavery. No one in the modern world openly accepts chattel bondage (not to say the modern world completely eliminated it, but no one openly has slaves and supports slavery). Would it be the Quakers? Some of them go to America and give them an Enlightenment? Maybe having to resort to conscription in WW2 will end slavery (unless you can tell me this somehow butterflies Pearl Harbor)? Or will it be put off until the 1950s (communism will probably seem much more appealing than being a slave and to avoid a slave revolt the American capitalists must show blacks there is a route to a comfortable life besides revolt) I'm pretty sure it's silly to say that if slavery is viewed favorable by all states in 1860s it will continue to today.

Or something silly like the British blockading America to end slavery (let's see... weakly defended Canada vs an America that can deploy 5 million troops, maybe 1/8 of which needs to remain behind to suppress a revolt, I'm sure that will end up making America kneel to British power)?

TBH, although it is true that the abolitionist movement hadn't yet taken off in the decade prior to the Revolution, a POD in the 1760s might still be almost too late to (well, plausibly, anyway) get the kind of exact scenario you're describing; i.e., all 13 colonies are devoted to slavery, and not just the South.

I dunno, maybe we can start with the more hardline Puritans in New England being more numerous & dominant? Those folks didn't seem to have much of an issue with slavery, regardless of what more moderate Puritans thought. Or, perhaps Bacon's Rebellion(to which, interestingly enough, yours truly does have a distant familial connection to) is bloodier and more widespread? Or perhaps a combination of both.

Does 'basic economics' count as an outside force?

Yes, it certainly does. Maybe not quite as soon as some have assumed over the years, but it does at some point.

After 1819? (don;t recall exact date) slave importation was illegal. All growth after that is from natural population growth. It has nothing to do with the cotton gin. People were born slaves and slave owners found a use for them. As long as the slave population can be replenished as fast as the free, the balance would exist

American slave economy is doomed by the continued immigration of freemen from Europe and the lack of slave imports. As long as there are enough slaves for the general population to benefit the economy can continue

A slave America would take advantage of its hegemony in the Western Hemisphere and seize all the slaves it could use from the Carribean Islands. A slave owning America would have found t he ideological justifications needed.

1808, IIRC.

Edit: In fact, yes. Our law, in fact, was signed into effect 3 weeks before the Brits were able to do the same, btw.
 
Last edited:
When Britain was starting to get the ball rolling on abolishing slavery in their colonies various prominent slave-owners in their Caribbean colonies threatened to seceded and join the United States. IOTL it didn't come to this, but let's say that the British government takes a more hard-line stance which alienates the pro-slavery lobby and results in them following through with this threat.

The Caribbean colonies break off and apply for membership/protection of the US. The US government agrees and in response the British declare war on the US. The US government spins this war as a defence of the self-determination of honest businessmen trying to protect their property from an invasive and tyrannical government drawing appropriate parallels to the War of Independence. In addition American abolitionists get smeared as potential defeatists and fifth columnists. For added impact maybe have Maine (I assume was quite anti-slavery at this point) attempt to rebel and align themselves with the British.

The US are largely successful in the war and the British Caribbean possessions are incorporated as states which strengthens the position of the Slave States in Federal politics. If we go with the Maine rebellion idea also have Maine incorporated into Canada, partly as compensation to the British, partly to get rid of a rebellious territory and partly as a way of resolving the border dispute that was resolved IOTL with the Webster-Ashburton Treaty, which would also have the effect of removing a prominent Free State.

The legacy of the war means that abolitionism has taken a serious legitimacy hit in the eyes of the American public, the Monroe Doctrine has been tacitly expanded to include the understanding that should any slave-holding colonies in the Americas oppose attempt by their owners to abolish slavery the US would be willing to come to their aid, later supporters of Manifest Destiny see the cause of preserving the right to own slavery as a potential tool to expand US territory and the balance of power between Free and Slave states is tipped slightly more towards Slavery.
 
When Britain was starting to get the ball rolling on abolishing slavery in their colonies various prominent slave-owners in their Caribbean colonies threatened to seceded and join the United States. IOTL it didn't come to this, but let's say that the British government takes a more hard-line stance which alienates the pro-slavery lobby and results in them following through with this threat.

Hold your horses. This is already after a few states outlawed slavery. I'm talking about a POD that makes America like slavery from the get go
 
Top