WI?: America fractures after Indepndance?

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Say America fractures after independence, how far would this go and waht happens after?
 
I'd guess this would happen due to a failed Constitutional Convention.

Best case scenario you get two, maybe three confederations of states with similar interests, philosophies, ect. They would probably be centered around Virginia, Pennsylvania, and New York.

Worst case scenario, the states start fighting with each other, Britain swoops in and gobbles them all back up, favoring, of course, the states that sided with Britain, meaning Virginia and Mass. probably get the shaft.

A middle-ground might be that the states sign a treaty keeping them all from waging war on each other at least for a long enough time for some of them to hold off an eventual British onslaught. A few coalitions form up through extra treaties, peace agreements, trade agreements, ect. If war starts up again with Britain, it's hard to say what will happen.

Either way, this prevents any American territories from expanding beyond the Mississippi in all likelihood. New York will control Michigan and Wisconsin. Pennsylvania will control Ohio, Illinois, and Indiana. Virginia will control Kentucky (and West Virginia, but that wasn't a state until the Civil War, so...). North Carolina will control Tennessee. Georgia will control Alabama, Mississippi, and if it invades Florida, that too. The smaller states might find more creative ways to expand, not wanting to be gobbled up by their larger neighbors. New England will probably buddy up together to ensure this, and they might start "American colonies" in other parts of the continent under the banner of either New England or whichever state funds said colonization. New England would probably be one of the only areas with the funding to do this anyway. I can't say I know what will happen with Maryland, Delaware, and South Caculacka. History takes a lot of odd turns, so who knows.
 
Maryland says Screw You to the other states and starts colonies in Africa

The other possible POD is the meddling of a certain Spanish Diplomat leads to the NE seceding over the use and boundary of the Mississippi.
 
I could see a POD at the constitutional convention over the rights/power of big states vs small states and over slavery.

The compromises over slavery and the 2 houses of congress could have broken down and we could have had at least 2-3 nations if not more from the 13 colonies.

No open hostilities among them at first, but as everyone makes a land grab it would happen
 

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So, anyway New York dominates everything north of Maryland or those areas stay together while the south breaks off to form its own, or several, nations?
 
Or the US stays nominally together, but Congress only meets once in a blue moon, and many states have their own foreign embassies etc. All a bit like the Holy Roman Empire.
 
So, anyway New York dominates everything north of Maryland or those areas stay together while the south breaks off to form its own, or several, nations?

No. New England Gangs up (New Hampshire, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachusetts-including Maine) and might actually have conflict with New York over who governs Vermont.

Pennsylvania was very influential at the time as well, and actually is more likely to dominate New York at the time. New York wasn't the powerhouse it is today until the National Bank was put there.
 
If America fractures after independence, then the European colonial powers (not necessarily Britain) might try to add these states to their colonial empire.
Separately each states would become an easier target, then if they stay united or at least fall apart in relatively large blocs.
 
If America fractures after independence, then the European colonial powers (not necessarily Britain) might try to add these states to their colonial empire.
Separately each states would become an easier target, then if they stay united or at least fall apart in relatively large blocs.

Who would do this?

The British, who just lost a massive war against those same states?

The Spanish, whose empire was already massive and going downhill fast?

The French, who were on the verge of bankruptcy after helping the colonies fight their war for independence?

I just don't see any colonial player at the time really capable of taking the American colonies.
 
Maybe not right away, but this POD will make the American Colonies much more vulnerable. Furthermore many of the territories IOTL joined the US, might stay colonies longer and if they gain independence you might see a larger diversity in languages (more Spanish and French).
 
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I would think you'd have a maritime / trading nation in New England, with a conflict between New York, Massachusetts and then-independent Vermont over who controls the latter. New York would probably wind up aligned with Pennsylvania and, by default, New Jersey and Delaware being pulled along. The states in the South would probably wind up in a third force, which would basically be an exporting nation. The resulting countries would not be able to expand west of the Mississippi, having neither the resources nor the motive to do so. As a result the majority of what we think of as the United States today would be culturally French or Spanish.

One good PoD would be for Washington to die in 1784, when he went out to the western frontier. He was a critical figure for the incipient nationalism and without him as an obvious leader for the young nation, the negotiations could easily break down in toto.
 
Any British politician who advocates re-invading and trying to take any of the American states is going to be about as popular as a US senator standing up in 1985 and declaring that we need to go back to Vietnam.

Anyway, in the event that the Constitutional Convention never coalesces, I see the states splitting along a Pennsylvania-New England-Virginia axis, which later forms into a North-South axis as the states inevitably realize they need to cooperate to function as a regional power. People would look back on the American Revolution as a romantic one-off time where all the states once worked together. Since I can't see any European power trying to actually take over any of the states, (they're all fairly high-population, formidable, and organized on their own) I think that if they aren't united by 1800 or so, the division will be permanent.

Also, expect "American re-unification" to be a romantic ideal in the eyes of many, but with too many regional divisions over slavery and tariffs to be practical.
 
I just don't see any colonial player at the time really capable of taking the American colonies.

Not by force, but by a bit of judicious bribery perhaps?

How did Clinton Rossiter put it? "The men of Philadelphia were confident that America could not be conquered. They were acutely afraid that parts of it might be bought".
 
I think that there would be New England, Vermont may or may not have remained it's own country. Ethan Allen at one point was attempting to sell it back to England. He wanted to much for it, and the English at that time were not very interested.
New England in the long run might very well have absorbed Vermont and midstate New York. Southern New York and Northern new Jersey could easily have ended up as part of either New England or a Mid Atlantic Group. Northern New York might be left to the Iroquois as a buffer state. That would give New England access too the great lakes. The mid atlantic group would include Pennsylvania and most of New Jersey. It's hard to say what Delaware and Maryland would do. Weather they would join a Southern Confederacy or a Mid Atlantic one is up in the air. The big Southern states might have very well stayed separate,after all most of them were bigger than many European countries.
The Indians would have done better, and Pennsylvania might be german speaking as was discussed after the Revolution
 
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