WI: Alternate Industrialisation in Ireland

[Ulster]

IOTL indudustrialisation in Ireland was focused on Belfast due to its placement as a good position for shipbuilding. Over time Belfast became home to one of the world's biggest shipbuilders (Harland and Wolff) and the centre of Ireland's linen industry. This industrialisation, and the wealth it brought, helped plant the seeds of Ulster's fight against Home Rule (Ulster's Protestants believing that being lumped with a mostly still agrarian Ireland would drag them down and damage their newfound prosperity).

So this led me to pose this question to the good folks of AH.com. If industrialisation was more widespread throughout Ireland, or focused somewhere other than Belfast, how would this alter the development of Ireland, in particular Ireland's campaign for Home Rule and the relationship between Protestants and Catholics?

 

[KorgusCyborgus]

It would have made partition less likely, I suppose. Losing most of the country's industries did some serious damage to the economy when Ireland became independent, so it'd be economically stronger.
I think it could have happened if the Famine hadn't happened, and the agrarian economy had gradually become unsustainable.

 

[Thande]

It would likely change the dynamic of Home Rule, yes, but you have to come up with a reason why industrialisation would be more evenly spread throughout the island.

 

[Ulster]

It would likely change the dynamic of Home Rule, yes, but you have to come up with a reason why industrialisation would be more evenly spread throughout the island.

Well one factor I had considered that if Ireland experienced more of the labour-saving agricultural reforms that Britain underwent during the 18th and 19th centuries then that could lead to a sizeable number of rural labourers forced to migrate into the cities for employment, as happened in Britain. With plenty of worker and prices for coal, iron and other resources similar to those in Britain the building blocks for industrialisation would be there.

I'll need to research some more on the following, since this is entirely off the top of my head, but perhaps an earlier Catholic Emancipation could also be beneficial. If Emancipation could be granted as promised with the Act of Union then that would remove barriers in place against Ireland's Catholic population, and could perhaps lead to the rise of a more entrepreneurial Catholic middle class? But, like I said, I'm no expert on the topic, simply interested to see what more informed minds than myself have to say on it

 

[Thande]

Well one factor I had considered that if Ireland experienced more of the labour-saving agricultural reforms that Britain underwent during the 18th and 19th centuries then that could lead to a sizeable number of rural labourers forced to migrate into the cities for employment, as happened in Britain. With plenty of worker and prices for coal, iron and other resources similar to those in Britain the building blocks for industrialisation would be there.

I'll need to research some more on the following, since this is entirely off the top of my head, but perhaps an earlier Catholic Emancipation could also be beneficial. If Emancipation could be granted as promised with the Act of Union then that would remove barriers in place against Ireland's Catholic population, and could perhaps lead to the rise of a more entrepreneurial Catholic middle class? But, like I said, I'm no expert on the topic, simply interested to see what more informed minds than myself have to say on it

Catholic Emancipation in 1801 would certainly be good but the problem is that George III was strongly opposed (he viewed it as a violation of his coronation oath) and by that time I think George IV was as well (so it doesn't help if George III kicked the bucket or went mad again). I was reading this book about Queen Victoria written in 1907 and the author made the point that of all the sons of George III, it was only her dad the Duke of Kent who was a Liberal Whig rather than a Tory in his politics--and the author attributes that fact as being responsible for the survival of the British monarchy, as all the other potential heirs were going against the tide of public opinion in their politics.

 

[Gallowglass]

You'd need to find crops that rivalled those already in use to promote agricultural reform. I mean, you already had agricultural reform in flax-and-barley country in Ulster and wheat-producing Leinster, due to the agriculture there being similar to that in Scotland and England respectively.

The trouble is finding a suitable cash crop for Connaught and Munster, in order to promote reforms beyond near-subsistence agriculture. More intensified apple cultivation and cider production in Tipperary, for a start?

 

[Thande]

You'd need to find crops that rivalled those already in use to promote agricultural reform. I mean, you already had agricultural reform in flax-and-barley country in Ulster and wheat-producing Leinster, due to the agriculture there being similar to that in Scotland and England respectively.

The trouble is finding a suitable cash crop for Connaught and Munster, in order to promote reforms beyond near-subsistence agriculture. More intensified apple cultivation and cider production in Tipperary, for a start?

I remember pondering whether rice could grow in Ireland, if only for the "paddy fields" pun. Probably too cold though.

 

[Ulster]

Catholic Emancipation in 1801 would certainly be good but the problem is that George III was strongly opposed (he viewed it as a violation of his coronation oath) and by that time I think George IV was as well (so it doesn't help if George III kicked the bucket or went mad again). I was reading this book about Queen Victoria written in 1907 and the author made the point that of all the sons of George III, it was only her dad the Duke of Kent who was a Liberal Whig rather than a Tory in his politics--and the author attributes that fact as being responsible for the survival of the British monarchy, as all the other potential heirs were going against the tide of public opinion in their politics.

The Georges are the big problem in the way of earlier Catholic Emancipation. Even when Emancipation was finally passed George had to be more or less bullied into going along with it by Wellington, and I suppose it's too much to hope for a sudden burst of common sense from either father or son...

 

[Arachnid]

IOTL indudustrialisation in Ireland was focused on Belfast due to its placement as a good position for shipbuilding. Over time Belfast became home to one of the world's biggest shipbuilders (Harland and Wolff) and the centre of Ireland's linen industry. This industrialisation, and the wealth it brought, helped plant the seeds of Ulster's fight against Home Rule (Ulster's Protestants believing that being lumped with a mostly still agrarian Ireland would drag them down and damage their newfound prosperity).

So this led me to pose this question to the good folks of AH.com. If industrialisation was more widespread throughout Ireland, or focused somewhere other than Belfast, how would this alter the development of Ireland, in particular Ireland's campaign for Home Rule and the relationship between Protestants and Catholics?

Well one affect of less industrialisation in Belfast means that Ulster is more Protestant. Prior to Belfast's boom it was nearly 100% Protestant. Without its booming industries you're not going to see Catholics migrate there meaning that when Home Rule does come up Ulster will be even more united than OTL in opposition to "Rome Rule".

As for having an agricultural revolution cause a migration from rural to urban areas that did happen in OTL. It was just the urban areas in question were Boston, New York and Sydney. To make all those newly unemployed agricultural labourers go to Irish cities you need some major alterations.

 

[Falkenburg]

Develop Cork as a 'Southern Belfast', based on Atlantic shipping, Fishing and supporting industries?

Historic links with the European seaboard could be built upon and a viable rival to Belfast emerge, over time.

The influence of a wealthy local Noble Dynasty determined to exert a benign paternalism would also be handy, to absorb some of the necessary infrastructure and investment costs.

Falkenburg