WI: Alexander the Great went west?

I'm not sure if this has been done before on the forum, but what-if Alexander the Great had went west into Italy, Illyria or Carthage instead of east into the Persian Empire? I challenge you to make a timeline based on this with the following stipulations
1. Philip II of Macedon must die on the exact same day as he did in OTL. However the means and consequences of his death are entirely up to you so long as they do not lead to conflict with Persia.
2. Macedon cannot come into conflict with Persia until 280 BC. To do this, you might have to change Philip's relations with Persia prior to his death.
3. Alexander cannot die by Persian hands, gold, etc.
4. Make it realistic (e.g. don't make Rome some sort of super power in the Mediterranean with a post-marian army, don't make Alexander discover America, etc.)
The timeline can go on as long as the creator wants of course, there is no time limit to it.
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
I don't see how this would work. The Greeks went along with Alexander because the Persians were their mortal enemies and had been for nearly two centuries. There would have been no such motivating factor for them to go along with Alexander on a campaign westwards until after the Persians had been defeated.
 

Gaius Julius Magnus

Gone Fishin'
With the stipulations you've given it'd be almost impossible. By the time of Philip's death Macedon was already at war with Persia, it already had troops in Anatolia and was waiting for reinforcements from Philip and Alexander.
 
Get Carthage or someone else to piss off Macedon or something. Just try making it work. Alter history quite far back if you must so that the Persians aren't the "mortal enemy" of the Greeks.
 

mowque

Banned
Get Carthage or someone else to piss off Macedon or something. Just try making it work. Alter history quite far back if you must so that the Persians aren't the "mortal enemy" of the Greeks.

Ah, if you do that you butterfly Alexander himself...
 
I'm not sure if this has been done before on the forum, but what-if Alexander the Great had went west into Italy, Illyria or Carthage instead of east into the Persian Empire? I challenge you to make a timeline based on this with the following stipulations
1. Philip II of Macedon must die on the exact same day as he did in OTL. However the means and consequences of his death are entirely up to you so long as they do not lead to conflict with Persia.
2. Macedon cannot come into conflict with Persia until 280 BC. To do this, you might have to change Philip's relations with Persia prior to his death.
3. Alexander cannot die by Persian hands, gold, etc.
4. Make it realistic (e.g. don't make Rome some sort of super power in the Mediterranean with a post-marian army, don't make Alexander discover America, etc.)
The timeline can go on as long as the creator wants of course, there is no time limit to it.

That cannot be done since how you put it CM it is ASB.No 1 and 2 are unreal.Phillip had allready declared war against Persia:winkytongue:hillip had already send general Parmenion to create a bridgehead in Asia with a small force;
Parmenion augmented his force and enlarged the bridgehead in antcipation
for the march of Phillip with Alexander ahead of a considerable army to Asia.
As you can see the status quo ante nullifies your preconditions.
Alexander had opened a discussion about a campaign in the west which discussion extended to his members of staff in Babylon.If Alexander makes a deal in Afganistan and returns direct to Babylon and his staff persuade him to campaign in the west,then you have an avenue there,taking into account that Livy tried to persuade that Alexander would have had a
difficult time in Italy but we..sympathize with him....
 
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Make Alexander Live longer, give him 5-10 more years he might make the Phoenician colonies close to Egypt Miserable he might even go to Italy
 
Make Alexander Live longer, give him 5-10 more years he might make the Phoenician colonies close to Egypt Miserable he might even go to Italy

Meanwhile, the East will crumble, but it did OTL, so basically this becomes "When he finds out, what does he do? Besides execute some scapegoats."
 
Not really sure why Alexander would want to go West. Macedon was, in all likelihood, a thoroughly sub-Iranian state by the time of Alexander's accession, which means the idea of obtaining riches and power lie in a campaign to the East, not the West. Sicily and Carthage are rich, sure, but they lack the grip on the Greek and Macedonian imagination that the Achaemenid Empire does. I can't really see Alexander campaigning in the West in any realistic scenario, tbh, and that includes Western campaigns after a conquest of Persia.
 
Not really sure why Alexander would want to go West. Macedon was, in all likelihood, a thoroughly sub-Iranian state by the time of Alexander's accession, which means the idea of obtaining riches and power lie in a campaign to the East, not the West. Sicily and Carthage are rich, sure, but they lack the grip on the Greek and Macedonian imagination that the Achaemenid Empire does. I can't really see Alexander campaigning in the West in any realistic scenario, tbh, and that includes Western campaigns after a conquest of Persia.

Why wouldnt he do it after the conquest of Persia? Alexander was building a massive fleet for Arabia by the time he died, after the conquest of Arabia he would most likely be mobilized for another attack most likely at Carthage, sense they would pose a serious competition for Greek trade in the region. Given Alexander's nature I think he would delve himself into a western war for "glory"
 
Why wouldnt he do it after the conquest of Persia? Alexander was building a massive fleet for Arabia by the time he died, after the conquest of Arabia he would most likely be mobilized for another attack most likely at Carthage, sense they would pose a serious competition for Greek trade in the region. Given Alexander's nature I think he would delve himself into a western war for "glory"

Quite simply- logistics. Arabia is doable, but much beyond that, I think Alexander's going to struggle, and get bogged down with revolt and rebellion in the Iranian highlands and elsewhere.
 
Terrain problems too. Not to mention Alexander would need a lot bigger fleet than he'd already had. His eastern campaigns allowed for a lightening war. A war in the Central Mediterranean would be a campaign lasting longer than Alexander had to live.
 
Get Carthage or someone else to piss off Macedon or something. Just try making it work. Alter history quite far back if you must so that the Persians aren't the "mortal enemy" of the Greeks.

Greeks were quite pissed with Phoenicians,and Alexander was pissed with Tyre(see what he did to it).Persians didn't learn their lesson after being utterly defeated by Greeks and had been forced to sign a treaty with various humiliating terms,but during the last part of the Peloponnesian war and throughout the fourth century BC they constantly interfered in Greek affairs with the final straw being the assassination of Phillip. That could not change unless you have to re-write Greek history of 6th century onwards;but then It won't be Greek history any more will it?
 
Terrain problems too. Not to mention Alexander would need a lot bigger fleet than he'd already had. His eastern campaigns allowed for a lightening war. A war in the Central Mediterranean would be a campaign lasting longer than Alexander had to live.

Actually I see no problems whatsoever! Alexander would start his campaign from Egypt and march East against Carthage with great numbers of heavy and light missile Persian cavalry and Macedonian and Greek heavy infantry plus his Persian core of trained infantry like hypaspists and all the war machinery he needed.He would move against Carthage along the North African coast,assisted by Greek navy from Ionia and headed by Athenian powerful navy,both fleets commissioned and paid by him and fully manned by greek mercenary marines....count the chances of Carthage: None.
 
Not really sure why Alexander would want to go West.
His brother-in-law Alexander of Epirus went west at the invitation of assorted greek city-states to sort out the troubles they were having with assorted Italic tribes (didn't end too well though...). Now, in OTL there was considerable friction between Alexander (of Macedon) and Philip, indeed, at one point Alexander was driven into exile in Illyria.

So, it actually proves relatively easy... Alex stays exiled, Philip dies per OTL and the rule of Macedon devolved back to Amyntas IV. Alex of M. tries to claim the throne of Macedon but looses and ends up stuck back in Epirus... when Alex of E subsiquently heads west Alex of M follows as his right hand man.
 
Actually I see no problems whatsoever! Alexander would start his campaign from Egypt and march East against Carthage with great numbers of heavy and light missile Persian cavalry and Macedonian and Greek heavy infantry plus his Persian core of trained infantry like hypaspists and all the war machinery he needed.He would move against Carthage along the North African coast,assisted by Greek navy from Ionia and headed by Athenian powerful navy,both fleets commissioned and paid by him and fully manned by greek mercenary marines....count the chances of Carthage: None.

Whenever one sees "no problems whatsoever" with something, one might want to take a better look at how often that happens in war.
 
Quite simply- logistics. Arabia is doable, but much beyond that, I think Alexander's going to struggle, and get bogged down with revolt and rebellion in the Iranian highlands and elsewhere.

I'm not really sure why this would necessarily be the case. Several of the Iranian provinces revolted against him in India because the satraps he reappointed thought that he would never return from India and wanted to be ahead of the game. When Alex returned, he got rid of the troublesome old satraps and appointed his own new guys, guys that were far more loyal to him. Peucestas is probably the best example - he was very loyal to Alexander and had earned the respect of his constituents by learning their language and adopting their customs. The Persians liked him (and I should note that Persia was by far the trickiest province for Alexander or his men to win support), and he was loyal to Alexander - a recipe for stability, not rebellion.

When Alexander died, the empire initially stayed largely intact. I can only really think of two rebellions (that weren't led by one of Alexander's ambitious generals) immediately after Alexander's death: Athens' Lamian War, funded by Harpalus' talents, and the Greek settlers in Bactria, who wanted out and only stayed there because Alexander forced them to. Both proved manageable. Even the Indian provinces remained with Perdiccas and the new regime, until Chandragupta conquered them. Iran remained wholly under Macedonian control for another couple hundred years, even during the chaos of the Diadochi wars, and even after Seleucus Nicator's death. Only the Parthians, a province that the Seleucids neglected while warring constantly with the Ptolemies over Syria, could get the Iranians to revolt against the Macedonians.

During the three years or so while Alexander would campaign in the west, he would probably have a trusted regent (someone like Lysimachus) back in Babylon to deal with potential rebellious satraps in Iran, India, or Arabia. If one were to revolt (which obviously I think is a lot less likely then most here do), Alexander's crony in the east would very likely be able to take care of it. They wouldn't be likely to revolt en masse, because these satraps are 1. far more loyal to Alexander then their predecessors and 2. not willing to chance that Alexander would die in the west like the previous Iranian satraps were to chance that he'd die in India.

To sum: satraps are Alexander's biggest concern in maintaining his empire during campaign, and after his war in India, he has managed to appoint satraps wholly loyal to him (or at least far more so then Darius' old men). Mass Iranian dissent against Alexander is unlikely, because of men like Peucestas and the lack of a nationalistic feeling for Iranian peasants (who don't particularly care who their rulers are, as long as their new rulers don't make a point of pissing them off by raising taxes or whatever - they might prefer Iranian rulers, but aren't willing to rise up and force the issue because their lives are essentially the same). The Greeks (read: Athens and Sparta, and possibly those Greeks in Bactria) are his biggest rebellion concern, a concern he started to deal with with the Exiles' Decree, which could only help him win support in Greece.

Essentially, an even more summed up version is this: why are satraps that Alexander appointed revolting against him, when they didn't against Perdiccas?

Kind of ironically, it seems to me that the empire was most stable right around the point that Alexander died. It broke up because of infighting between the generals once his presence was gone, not because the east was mad with Alexander or anything (well, maybe Chandragupta, but besides him!). With Alexander still alive, his absolutely enormous presence would still be around. He was one of the very few people in history that could keep together an enormous empire by sheer force of personality... and healthy paranoia/political sense (whichever you want to use ;)), which eliminated many potential rebels before they could get far.

As to how the western campaign would go, ignoring events that may or may not be going on in the east during such a campaign... there are two ways that he could approach it: taking the "Pyrrhus" route, or taking the land route from Egypt all the way to Carthage itself. I personally think that the Pyrrhus route is more likely - that way, he can conquer the Samnites and Lucanians (the ones bothering Tarentum), and he can gather Greeks along the way, and ensure Magna Graecia's loyalty by garrisoning the necessary towns. A Siege of Lilybaeum would be tough, but doable with Alexander's massive fleet that would accompany him. Then, he'd probably incite rebellion in Carthage by getting the Libyans to revolt and by gaining the loyalty of some Numidian princes. A pitched battle with Carthage would be fought that Alexander would win easily due to numbers as much as anything, and then a tricky, lengthy siege. The western Punic colonies would submit during or immediately after Carthage's fall... and afterwards, he may or may not want to go all the way to the Atlantic with his army. Then, the return home... home meaning Babylon, of course!
 
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