WI: Alexander Lives Longer..a little bit

Alright.
What will happen if that certain spanish pope didn't get that "Bad Air"(Cantarella)?

Will the Papacy is more corrupt than ever?
 

Stolengood

Banned
I wish you'd specified your Alexanders; I was wondering how exactly Alexander the Great living only a little longer would affect world history, in your view. :D
 
Alright.
What will happen if that certain spanish pope didn't get that "Bad Air"(Cantarella)?

Will the Papacy is more corrupt than ever?

Some type of Reformation would likely occur, possibly even sooner. Alexander VI was more competent as a political leader than Innocent VIII, but was as corrupt as any Renaissance pope. There're good reasons why he frequently tops the "Worst Popes of All Time" lists.

Having him survive a bit longer is not going to help. If you want to keep the Catholic Church united without Luther-esque ideas, maybe Queen Isabella could badger Rome into adopting some of her reforms? She was bent on purifying the Spanish church, and was seen as a predecessor of the Counter-Reformation. . .

I'm betting the popes would be too focused on selling indulgences and sleeping around to listen, though. :D
 
His living another 6 months or so might have allowed Cesare Borgia to consolidate his rule of Central Italy (possibly including the conquest of Tuscany).
 
His living another 6 months or so might have allowed Cesare Borgia to consolidate his rule of Central Italy (possibly including the conquest of Tuscany).

How is a mere six months going to do that?

Cesare's position after Alexander's death suggests less "brink of success" and more "only by the favor of his father".

I'm open to someone who knows better than me proving me wrong - I'm no expert.

But it strikes me as "Yeah, another six months of the most hated pope of his century."
 
How is a mere six months going to do that?

Cesare's position after Alexander's death suggests less "brink of success" and more "only by the favor of his father".

I'm open to someone who knows better than me proving me wrong - I'm no expert.

But it strikes me as "Yeah, another six months of the most hated pope of his century."

Yes, absolutely, Cesare depended on the favor of his Father to to get on the road to power. At the time of Alexander's death, Cesare's star was still rising.

I stated 6 months as a bare minimum, as many of his conquests in central Italy were quite fresh and absorbing Tuscany (if he could) would need time, as well. It's a stab at guessing a bare minimum, but it would be natural to conclude that the longer a friendly pope is on the throne, the farther Cesare gets and the more his power grows.

It's a further 6 months of consolidation and opportunity that doesn't exist when (and of course, if, allowing for butterflies) della Rovere (who was the nemisis of the Borgia) gets the keys to St. Peters. Cesare seemed to be on verge of great things concerning developing a self-sufficient power. What seemed to be critical to his success was there not being a hostile Pope on the throne that his enemies could rally around as much as working under a pope who sustained Cesare's privileges . OTL, Alexander's immediate successor, Pius III, during his short reign, maintained Cesare's rank and standing. This was Cesare's worst luck -- the fact that Pius didn't last longer than he did.

Ultimately, as in my prior post, I posit Cesare's long term prospects as a possibility. Not a sure thing, to be sure.
 
Ultimately, as in my prior post, I posit Cesare's long term prospects as a possibility. Not a sure thing, to be sure.

Yeah. I think six months isn't long enough, but I wouldn't rule out "if given time" either.

Makes one wonder how much of that was under his sway vs. the Papal State, though. As in, if by the point an unfavorable pope comes along he's succeeded - is he going to be able to say "Well, I rule this now, tough."?

That's a question I'm not comfortable answering, but it would be interesting as a ripple from some timeline set in the era.
 
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