WI Albino Luciani wasn't voted Pope

Well, this was mostly inspired by this thread.

Albino Luciani, after becoming Pope, chose the name of John Paul I. He then reigned for only 33 days before dying, forcing the cardinals to elect another pope. 1978 was then known as the Year of Three Popes.

What would be the implications on the ATL Catholic Church and the world in general?

Luciani was among the shortest-reigning pope in the entire history of the Catholic Church.
 
Well, this was mostly inspired by this thread.

Albino Luciani, after becoming Pope, chose the name of John Paul I. He then reigned for only 33 days before dying, forcing the cardinals to elect another pope. 1978 was then known as the Year of Three Popes.

What would be the implications on the ATL Catholic Church and the world in general?

Luciani was among the shortest-reigning pope in the entire history of the Catholic Church.

Well obviously the world would be denied all the great accomplishments of John Paul I.

Which were...

From copycat threads spare us Oh Lord.

This has the very same problem the other thread had. Who the @!#! does become pope? Really Papal WI's should be WI Rampolla becomes pope? not WI Sarto does not become pope.

BECAUSE IT MAKES A HUGE DIFFERENCE IN 1978

Does Siri become pope? Siri becoming Pope has long been a Trad wet dream. He snaps his papal fingers and Shazam the Second Vatican Council is voided and overnight the Catholic Church becomes exactly like it was in the late 50's. Well no that is not going to happen but he is going to move the Church in a more conservative direction on the theological, political and disciplinary axes

Does Benelli becomes pope? On the theological axis he is a moderate but on the disciplinary axis he is an authoritarian on the discipline axis. Within a nanosecond he excommunicates Lefebvre but after that his main targets will be the likes of Kung and Curran

Does Wojtyla become pope? He almost certainly does not take that stupid double regnal name. Does advancing his papacy create butterflies. Maybe no assassination attack or then maybe it succeeds

Someone else like Ursi becomes pope
 
Well obviously the world would be denied all the great accomplishments of John Paul I.

Which were...

From copycat threads spare us Oh Lord.

This has the very same problem the other thread had. Who the @!#! does become pope? Really Papal WI's should be WI Rampolla becomes pope? not WI Sarto does not become pope.

BECAUSE IT MAKES A HUGE DIFFERENCE IN 1978

Does Siri become pope? Siri becoming Pope has long been a Trad wet dream. He snaps his papal fingers and Shazam the Second Vatican Council is voided and overnight the Catholic Church becomes exactly like it was in the late 50's. Well no that is not going to happen but he is going to move the Church in a more conservative direction on the theological, political and disciplinary axes

Does Benelli becomes pope? On the theological axis he is a moderate but on the disciplinary axis he is an authoritarian on the discipline axis. Within a nanosecond he excommunicates Lefebvre but after that his main targets will be the likes of Kung and Curran

Does Wojtyla become pope? He almost certainly does not take that stupid double regnal name. Does advancing his papacy create butterflies. Maybe no assassination attack or then maybe it succeeds

Someone else like Ursi becomes pope

You may not think kindly of such threads, maybe because Willkürlich Kerl didn't specify who becomes pope, but please don't be that harsh.
 
Cardinal Sergio Pignedoli (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergio_Pignedoli) wins on the 3rd ballot and takes the name Paul VII. His tenure, greeted with much optimism and joy ended unexpectedly in late April, 1980, when he died from a pulmonary embolism at age 70 (Think: OTL's JP II dies unexpectedly, of natural causes prior to the 1981 assassination attempt).
 
Does Siri become pope? Siri becoming Pope has long been a Trad wet dream. He snaps his papal fingers and Shazam the Second Vatican Council is voided and overnight the Catholic Church becomes exactly like it was in the late 50's. Well no that is not going to happen but he is going to move the Church in a more conservative direction on the theological, political and disciplinary axes

Does Benelli becomes pope? On the theological axis he is a moderate but on the disciplinary axis he is an authoritarian on the discipline axis. Within a nanosecond he excommunicates Lefebvre but after that his main targets will be the likes of Kung and Curran

Does Wojtyla become pope? He almost certainly does not take that stupid double regnal name. Does advancing his papacy create butterflies. Maybe no assassination attack or then maybe it succeeds

These really are the questions that must be asked. Who becomes Pope?

The August 1978 conclave was, by all accounts, a deadlock between Siri and Benelli. Neither could assemble sufficient votes to reach the threshold, so Luciani ended up selected as a compromise. Presumably, if Luciani isn't available, and there is no other POD, you need another acceptable compromise candidate. Yes, it *could* have been Wojtyla - there was interest in him already, and he allegedly received a few votes - but I think the College was much less ready to take such a risk in August; they needed the shock of Luciani's sudden death to entertain such an unconventional (non-Italian) candidacy. Lord Grattan suggests Pignedoli, but I think he was too associated with Paul VI, too liberal to gain enough conservative votes in the conclave.

There's an obvious POD if we look past August to the October conclave, where Siri made the mistake of granting an embargoed interview to Italian journalist Gianni Licheri in which he made critical comments about Vatican II, only to have Licheri's article publish before the conclave, damaging his chances...if that interview doesn't happen, Siri has a better shot, though not a slam dunk. But that doesn't help us with the August conclave.

A Siri or Benelli pontificate would have a much greater likelihood of provoking schism for the reasons Tom gives - Siri really would have tried some kind of rollback of conciliar changes, which might have pushed some progressive prelates over the edge, while Benelli was sufficiently autocratic and abrasive to make plenty of enemies. The even bigger butterflies are those involving the Cold War, once John Paul II's enormous impact on Poland is taken away. It's hard to underestimate the impact that that nine day trip had on Solidarity's growth and success, with all that followed from it. After June 1979, the only thing that kept the communists in power was armed force, and the threat of its use, especially in Soviet form.
 
These really are the questions that must be asked. Who becomes Pope?

The August 1978 conclave was, by all accounts, a deadlock between Siri and Benelli. snip ...

The Siri - Benelli horse race came during the October '78 conclave, according to unofficial accounts, and it was Cardinal Wojtyła who emerged as the compromise candidate.

W/o Luciani in the mix, the August '78 conclave will elect either Siri, Pignedoli, or Baggio (König, Lorscheider, or Bertoli are possible as well).
 
The Siri - Benelli horse race came during the October '78 conclave, according to unofficial accounts, and it was Cardinal Wojtyła who emerged as the compromise candidate.

W/o Luciani in the mix, the August '78 conclave will elect either Siri, Pignedoli, or Baggio (König, Lorscheider, or Bertoli are possible as well).

Siri and Benelli were the leading contenders in August as well, however.
 
Siri and Benelli were the leading contenders in August as well, however.

Siri yes, Benelli, after all we know, no. But the reason for this was, that Luciani was pratically Benellis candidate. But if we assume that Luciani dies before the conclave, Benelli would propably be Siris main opponent.
 

sprite

Donor
Monthly Donor
Hey, I like that double regnal name; it's not stupid, it's unique.

Uniqueness against a tradition dating back 1900-odd years? it's kinda like giving the finger to everyone who came before. :p

Although i would like to see Innocent Victor I :D
 

Stolengood

Banned
Uniqueness against a tradition dating back 1900-odd years? it's kinda like giving the finger to everyone who came before. :p

Although i would like to see Innocent Victor I :D
I think it works because it's a combination of single-syllable names; any more syllables for each, and the simplicity's gone.
 
Do you think Wojtyla's nomination was helped by the cardinals wanting to make sure they have a pope who won't die right away?
And is it plausible they would have chosen Siri or Benelli rather than a compromise candidate?
 
Do you think Wojtyla's nomination was helped by the cardinals wanting to make sure they have a pope who won't die right away?
And is it plausible they would have chosen Siri or Benelli rather than a compromise candidate?

I think it definitly maid it easier for the cardinals to accept a relativ young candidate like Wojtyla.
I don´t think that Siri had a real chance, but the rumours said, that Benelli just felt 5 votes short of a majority.
 
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