What if Alaska wasn't sold to the US in 1867? Could it still be Russian in the begining of the Cold War? I doubt it: probably the U.S. would have taken it during the soviet Revolution. Or maybe a capitalist Russian state might be formed there, such as today´s Taiwan. What do you think? If it had remaind Russian till 1947, would that have change the developpment of the cold war? How???
WI Alaska was still Russian during Cold War
- Thread starter Admiral Brown
- Start date
I like the idea of a Russian Taiwan, and the geography would even work. After all, the United States managed to send expeditionary forces to Archangel and Vladivostok. Alaska's an order of magnitude closer, and the political situation in the United States may not have allowed an outright takeover.
The Yukon Gold Rush probably won't be butterflied away, but the subsidiary discoveries of gold and diamonds in Alaska may very well be, and certainly the North Slope oil won't be exploited before 1917. It's an interesting possibility, but with the vast majority of the Russian population in the western portions of the country, I doubt there'd be enough settlers to make a go of an independent Alaska under Russian rule.
An interesting possibility is that the British/Canadians grab Alaska during the revolution, rather than the United States. After all, Alaska doesn't border the United States directly, and it'd be a short jump from British Columbia or the Yukon Territory to take over the country.
The Yukon Gold Rush probably won't be butterflied away, but the subsidiary discoveries of gold and diamonds in Alaska may very well be, and certainly the North Slope oil won't be exploited before 1917. It's an interesting possibility, but with the vast majority of the Russian population in the western portions of the country, I doubt there'd be enough settlers to make a go of an independent Alaska under Russian rule.
An interesting possibility is that the British/Canadians grab Alaska during the revolution, rather than the United States. After all, Alaska doesn't border the United States directly, and it'd be a short jump from British Columbia or the Yukon Territory to take over the country.
No, sorry, I've not heard of it, not that i remember, at least.
I've discovered this very interesting forum two days ago, so I don't know exactelly what you have already debated. I'll check the list...
Unfortunately, it's not very good. The premise was nice, and there were good spots, but I wasn't a fan.
Or possibly that Britain/Canada does this indirectly, by supplying protection for a white-Russian/monarchy rump state after the communist victory in WWI. Which is the basic thread suggestion but with a reason why the communists don't just cross the Bering Straits in the mid- 20's. The US would probably give at least limited support to this idea to keep communism from N America.
Steve
ninebucks
Banned
It probably would end up as a White rump state.
However, an interesting scenario would be if the USSR requested the return of (i.e. asks the USA to not intervene if they invade) Alaska following the Second World War. The USA may agree to that, but more likely it will be the first in a long line of Cold War crises.
However, an interesting scenario would be if the USSR requested the return of (i.e. asks the USA to not intervene if they invade) Alaska following the Second World War. The USA may agree to that, but more likely it will be the first in a long line of Cold War crises.
It probally would end up British.
America not buying it would signal they had no interest in going up north so Britain would feel obliged to take it the next time trouble starts with Russia- they came close to war quite a bit but the fact that central asia was a rather large, nasty place to send a army meant it never came down to it. With Alaska sitting right on Canada's border Britain might be prompted to give Russia a bit of a kicking.
The idea of a white rump state is a cliche albeit it a rather cool one but things wouldn't get that far. And thats utterly ignoring butterflies.
America not buying it would signal they had no interest in going up north so Britain would feel obliged to take it the next time trouble starts with Russia- they came close to war quite a bit but the fact that central asia was a rather large, nasty place to send a army meant it never came down to it. With Alaska sitting right on Canada's border Britain might be prompted to give Russia a bit of a kicking.
The idea of a white rump state is a cliche albeit it a rather cool one but things wouldn't get that far. And thats utterly ignoring butterflies.
ninebucks
Banned
I'm not sure that buying this territory would be so beneficial for anyone, seeing as it will probably filled with Russians, many of them, (statistically speaking), with pro-Soviet, socialist views. So for one, there may even be the possibility that Alaska will fall into Communist hands quickly during the civil war, and even if it doesn't, there will still be a lot of Reds around, willing to disrupt anyone governing Alaska besides Moscow.
I don't know, but I suspect that Japan wouldn't keep it past World War II.
Why would Japan want it? They did carve off Manchuria, but that's right next door. They didn't really make a move into the Pacific islands until WWI.
Japanese Alaska..
Yes, many moons ago on this Forum I wrote a timeline in which Russia ceded Alaska to Japan as part of the Treaty of Portsmouth.
Alaska (or its Japanese name) was nominally ruled by a Governor and held by one of the younger sons of the Emperor. In the 1920s and 1930s it was settled by colonists (often forcibly) and was used extensively by the Imperial military as part of its preparations for war.
As the attack on Pearl Harbor occurred in December 1941, it was impossible given severe winter conditions for any serious activity to occur on the Alaskan-Canada frontier.
In the spring of 1942, however, Japanese naval units based on the Alaskan coast launched a series of raids on Canadian and American coastal communities including Vancouver and, most daringly, the Great Bay Raid of April 9-12 1942 in which a small Japanese force landed north of San Francisco. Although not a serious military incursion, the attack was believed to be an invasion and led to panic in much of California for forty-eight hours until reserve units were able to hunt down the raiders and kill them.
As the Americans regained control of the Pacific from 1942-44. the Japanese in both Alaska and the Aleutians became increasingly isolated and by early 1945 American forces had captured most of the Aleutians leaving the Japanese in Alaska isolated. An American raid in June 1945 led to a rapid retreat away from the main towns. The Japanese Army in Alaska capitulated on August 15th 1945.
The Russians made a postwar claim on Alaska but, following Russian intransigence in Europe, the Americans rapidly moved to establish control up to the Bering Strait. Even today, Moscow retains a claim on Alaska but the area is now generally recognised as part of the United States.
(I had an alternative version in which Russia regained Alaska in 1945 and set up the Autonomous Republic of Alaska. The Canadian/Alaskan frontier became as heavily patrolled and fortified as the divisions of both Germany and Korea but although roads were improved, the main access continued to be by air and sea.
In 1991, Moscow began to withdraw its forces from Alaska and allowed more investment and tourism. This encouraged the Alaskans to seek more autonomy from Moscow but since the election of President Putin, central control has been re-established though tourism and external investment continues to be attracted into the region).
Yes, many moons ago on this Forum I wrote a timeline in which Russia ceded Alaska to Japan as part of the Treaty of Portsmouth.
Alaska (or its Japanese name) was nominally ruled by a Governor and held by one of the younger sons of the Emperor. In the 1920s and 1930s it was settled by colonists (often forcibly) and was used extensively by the Imperial military as part of its preparations for war.
As the attack on Pearl Harbor occurred in December 1941, it was impossible given severe winter conditions for any serious activity to occur on the Alaskan-Canada frontier.
In the spring of 1942, however, Japanese naval units based on the Alaskan coast launched a series of raids on Canadian and American coastal communities including Vancouver and, most daringly, the Great Bay Raid of April 9-12 1942 in which a small Japanese force landed north of San Francisco. Although not a serious military incursion, the attack was believed to be an invasion and led to panic in much of California for forty-eight hours until reserve units were able to hunt down the raiders and kill them.
As the Americans regained control of the Pacific from 1942-44. the Japanese in both Alaska and the Aleutians became increasingly isolated and by early 1945 American forces had captured most of the Aleutians leaving the Japanese in Alaska isolated. An American raid in June 1945 led to a rapid retreat away from the main towns. The Japanese Army in Alaska capitulated on August 15th 1945.
The Russians made a postwar claim on Alaska but, following Russian intransigence in Europe, the Americans rapidly moved to establish control up to the Bering Strait. Even today, Moscow retains a claim on Alaska but the area is now generally recognised as part of the United States.
(I had an alternative version in which Russia regained Alaska in 1945 and set up the Autonomous Republic of Alaska. The Canadian/Alaskan frontier became as heavily patrolled and fortified as the divisions of both Germany and Korea but although roads were improved, the main access continued to be by air and sea.
In 1991, Moscow began to withdraw its forces from Alaska and allowed more investment and tourism. This encouraged the Alaskans to seek more autonomy from Moscow but since the election of President Putin, central control has been re-established though tourism and external investment continues to be attracted into the region).
Max Sinister
Banned
The Monroe Doctrine was made against European powers, but I don't think Monroe had in mind that Asian states would still be allowed to take colonies there.
Why would the US take it in the Revolution? wouldn't it be more plausible to become part of Canada?
Why would the US take it in the Revolution? wouldn't it be more plausible to become part of Canada?
I'd agree with that. Interesting butterflies in the latter half of the 20th century with the development of the North Slope oil fields.
I don't think you can plausibly butterfly away Japanese interests in the Pacific Theatre with this POD. You're not going to prevent the militarists from gaining power, and Japan isn't suddenly going to discover a trillion-barrel oil field below Honshu. Those two factors basically mean that Japan is on a collision course with war -- against China, if no one else.