WI & AHC: West Ukrainian People's Republic manages to survive

[NotYetRegistered]

What it says on the title. Is this only possible if the Ukrainian People's Republic survives? If so, would the two integrate into one nation or stay seperate? Seeing as the Ukrainian People's Republic's focus was on the Russians, how could the West Ukrainians defeat the Poles? Would the Poles ever have been happy with a peace agreement?

What if the Poles and Czechs engaged in a full-scale war, instead of a 7-day war that ended after Entente pressure? Would the Czechs support the West Ukrainians to spite the Poles and create an ally against a common foe?

If the West Ukrainians manage to survive alone, would this alter the build-up to WW II any differently? What role could the West Ukrainians play? Would they just get annexed by the Soviets after the war, assuming the Soviets win? Or would they just get annexed during the same time the Baltic countries got annexed?

 

[JoeyB2198]

To survive initially, they need both the Poles and the Soviets to be weakened substantially. To survive long-term, they need an ally who can threaten both of them or is one of them.

Your idea with Czechoslovakia might work initially, but as time goes on the WUPR still borders two states immensely more powerful than itself who both
want to annex it.

Assuming they do survive, I assume they get screwed over in the Mol-Rib pact just like the Baltics, unless they can align with Germany before the pact is signed, in which case they may end up a Slovakia analogue for the extent of the war.

 

[Zaius]

I think that before the successful offensives of 1919 Poland was willing to recognize Ukrainian control of the parts of Galicia to the east of Lvov. West Ukraine seeing the writing on the wall early enough and ceding Lvov might allow it to survive.

If the West Ukrainians manage to survive alone, would this alter the build-up to WW II any differently? What role could the West Ukrainians play? Would they just get annexed by the Soviets after the war, assuming the Soviets win? Or would they just get annexed during the same time the Baltic countries got annexed?

If Caesar fails to conquer Gaul, would this alter the build-up to the Russian invasion of Ukraine?

 

[NotYetRegistered]

If Caesar fails to conquer Gaul, would this alter the build-up to the Russian invasion of Ukraine?

Yes, because a West Ukrainian Republic would surely just completely remove the Great Depression and completely alter what Hitler does.

 

[user23123]

What it says on the title. Is this only possible if the Ukrainian People's Republic survives?

It has a better chance as a part of Ukraine,the other why is someone strong enough that could guarantee that neither the soviets nor the Poland annex them.
O just have W. Ukraine as puppet of the Poland or the Soviets.

If so, would the two integrate into one nation or stay seperate?

I would say unite,unless they end with different political system,lets say one of them is communist the other one is not.in which case they might fight with each other,unless again one is protectorate of someone strong enough.

Seeing as the Ukrainian People's Republic's focus was on the Russians, how could the West Ukrainians defeat the Poles?

Most likely with help.

Would the Poles ever have been happy with a peace agreement?

It is enough for them to accept it,and that is possible,especially if someone backs-up the Ukraine.

What if the Poles and Czechs engaged in a full-scale war, instead of a 7-day war that ended after Entente pressure?

The thing is it could turn in to bigger clusterfuck,thus decreasing the chances of W Ukraine survival.

Would the Czechs support the West Ukrainians to spite the Poles and create an ally against a common foe?

If both survive and Poland is consider a treat by both then yes.

If the West Ukrainians manage to survive alone, would this alter the build-up to WW II any differently?

It will stay the same,the thing is that there are two world wars in one,you got the west one and the east one,Now preparation for the west one will not be affected by survival of Ukraine,as a hole or just the west.what it will chance is the east one.

What role could the West Ukrainians play?

Not a great one,basically just another Baltic country,a bigger Ukraine could indeed play a part,and even some meaningful effects on the course of the war and the aftermath of the war.

Would they just get annexed by the Soviets after the war, assuming the Soviets win?

After the war,more likely before the Baltic's.

Or would they just get annexed during the same time the Baltic countries got annexed?

That is a possibility also.

 

[Zaius]

Yes, because a West Ukrainian Republic would surely just completely remove the Great Depression and completely alter what Hitler does.

Hitler only won by a narrow margin, and IIRC the Nazis' popularity was already dropping at the time of his victory. If the Germans were indeed programmed to react to any disappointment with Hitler, their programming had a damn small margin of error.

And once he seized power, he remained a maniac prone to violent mood swings and 180- and 540-degree reversals. Take Serbia for example, a prospective Axis member one month and Lebensraum the next. God only knows which of the two he decides Ukraine is at the time when it matters, or how many times he changes his mind in the meantime. But even if there is a "Ribbentrop-Molotov" pact, he ain't keeping Stalin out of west Ukraine. And how big is this West Ukraine, for that matter?

(Speaking of Stalin, Stalin's relative sanity makes him more predictable. He would want West Ukraine incorporated into the Ukrainian component of the USSR at the first convenient occasion.)

Not to mention that the rest of Europe could have reacted differently to his ascension such as France rolling into the Rhineland in 1936 or so - which alters Hitler's future career beyond recognition if it does not end it then and there, Czechoslovakia saying no - which for starters denies Germany an awful lot of wealth and ammo, Poland saying yes - which can butterfly the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact away completely as late as spring 1939...