WI/AHC: Dambiijantsan Mongolia

When people think of pre-Soviet post-1900 Mongolia, we think of the infamous warlord Ungern-Sternberg, the Baltic nobleman with a love of the occult, wishing to liberate the Mongolians from Chinese oppression and create a new empire under the Bogd Khan. What less know is that there was another pan-Mongol man who also attempted to liberate Mongolia from Chinese and communist oppression and form an empire, but under his own rule instead of the Khan's. This man was Dambiijantsan or Ja Lama, a man with a brutal reputation for dealing with his enemies, possibly worse than that of Sternberg. His plan was also ambitious in taking Mongolia under his rule and forming a new Oirat Empire stretching from Mongolia to the Caspian Sea, all under militant Buddhist rule. After assisting the liberation of Mongolia, He established his warlord territory in part of Xinjianf, hoping to create his Oirat dream eventually. But after the Soviets came to power there, his dreams became less credible until one emissary came and assassinated him. He became a footnote in history.

But what if, or could, the man had been if more success? Perhaps he was better at recruiting troops, or he had chosen to ally rather than violently reject Sternberg, or he had succeeded in overthrowing the Bogd Khan on top of the Chinese? Or even some other way. What would his regime look like, and could it last better than Sternberg's attempt?
 
"fanatically anti-Tsarist Russian, anti-Soviet Russian, and anti-Chinese." - Wikipedia on Ja Lama

Remove one out of the above and he stands to be somewhat more successful with the ready support. At least for Ungern-Sternberg, he's a Tsarist Russian who was anti-Soviet and anti-Chinese, so he does have some help from the remaining Tsarists and the Entente, however fleeting it was and however repulsive he was to them.
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
Sternberg was not Pan-Mongol. He was a crazy monarchist who didn't give a rat's ass about Mongols or Mongolia. And since he wanted to restore the Romanovs and the Qing dynasty, the Mongols didn't like him much.

For example Ja Lama had Sternberg's delegation to his camp murdered because he had lost all faith Sternberg.
 
As the closest thing, we may or may not have to have a post-1900 Mongolia expert on this forum gonna have to say no. The Ja Lama's stances and character put him against a native Mongolian nobility which is where the independence movement had started with, with no love for China and saw Russian aid as the only way gain and maintain independence. The Ja Lama had plans to create an Oirat state and basically ruled like a tyrant which did him no favors this is also meant, going up against the Bodh Khan means you not also going up against the nobles but also the fact he was considered a reincarnation and fit to rule by the Buddhist authorities.

If the Ja Lama could play it smarter, be less brutal that could help him shore up a power base, but he would have to make sure whatever happens Sternberg is thrown out ASAP, otherwise the Soviets are going to come into Mongolia like in OTL. Otherwise, the Soviets aren't going to care.
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
And since the Mongolian People's Revolutionary party already was a thing, and was one of the best organized movements in Mongolia, it's hard to see the Bolsheviks accept anyone else than their red buddies in charge.
 
Interesting stuff. So your view is that its best if he submits to Bogd Khan, and/or allies with Sternberg? Outer Mongolia, Tannu Tuva and maybe Inner Mongolia is the most they could get without drawing the Soviets in, unless you have a very severe RCW leading to utter collapse there. Would the Japanese want to ally with them-especially since their Mongolia is better than a Soviet one?
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
Interesting stuff. So your view is that its best if he submits to Bogd Khan, and/or allies with Sternberg? Outer Mongolia, Tannu Tuva and maybe Inner Mongolia is the most they could get without drawing the Soviets in, unless you have a very severe RCW leading to utter collapse there. Would the Japanese want to ally with them-especially since their Mongolia is better than a Soviet one?
No Sternberg would be ideal. To accomplish this you probably need no Chinese occupation. But I can't see the Soviets not helping the Mongolian reds to power, because it's a relatively easier thing to do.
 
And since the Mongolian People's Revolutionary party already was a thing, and was one of the best organized movements in Mongolia, it's hard to see the Bolsheviks accept anyone else than their red buddies in charge.

No Sternberg would be ideal. To accomplish this you probably need no Chinese occupation. But I can't see the Soviets not helping the Mongolian reds to power, because it's a relatively easier thing to do.

I would disagree, As long as the Whites never make it to Mongolia, The Soviets are not going to care who is power as long as Mongolia would serve as a buffer for the Transiberian Railroad, and provide them with resources, especially if Stalin is in power by then. It's the only reason the Soviets, and for a relatively easier thing to do they would just back the Bodh Khan, and arm twist and invest where appropriate.
 
Wouldn't a 'free Mongolia' wish to gravitate towards Japan to back its legitimacy? Particularly if Japan grants them Inner Mongolia later down the line?
 
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