WI a significant comunity of black Muslims in Brazil?

Today I found a book in a library that had a translation of the dairy of an Muslim Iman who had traveled to Brazil in the second half of the XIX century. He came aboard a ship with an official mission on the part of the Ottoman empire. He said that when they disembarked in Rio, he was greated by a Black [1] Brazilian saying "salam alekum". He didn't spoke Arab, so the Iman concluded he only knew this words somebody had tought them, and didn't gave them importance. But later that day, when he and his fellow countrymen where praying, a group of black men approached and started praying with them.

He found out that their parents (or themselves when they where very young) had come to Brazil in the early years of the XIX century, from "Sudan" (which could mean any part of Subsaharan Africa).

The next day he went to visit them, and tried to instruct them on Islamic matters (as he had found they ignored essential stuff), but found it very hard, because they didn't speak Arab, and he didn't spoke Portuguese. He later found a translator weho spoke Arab and Portuguese, but he didn't probe himself very reliable.

A few days later his Ottoman captain prohibited him to continue visiting the local Muslims, because he feared that the Brazilian authorities might prohibit the entrance of Ottoman ships if they thought they where proseliting Islam. He said that Muslims here had to keep a low profile and to often "pass as Christians", and that it was better to leave things that way. The Iman entered in a dispute with the captain, saying it was against God's will to abandon their brothers in the faith without having given them the proper instruction.

He said there where 5000 Muslims in Rio. I don't know the date of the trip, but it must have been around 1870.

They later went to Bahia, in Northern Brazil. He found more Muslims, but said that most of the kids felt so atracted by Christian music, dance, dresses and stuff that they eventually tended to become Christians. He was also shocked because Muslim women weren't "covered".

I couldn't help wondering: what if the Ottoman empire had made a commercial treaty with Brazil that included a clause which would allow the envoy of Muslims Imans for the Muslim community? Could something of the sort be accepted by Brazil, or is it ASB? If it had been accepted, could this have led to a strong Muslim revival amond the black commuity in Brazil? what consequences could this have had in the long term?

[1] I don't think he used the word "Black". Something that I found surprising about the dairy is that, at least in the parts of the book I read, he practically never refered to the local muslims as "blacks". For him, they where just Muslims.
 
The history of that Iman is nice. His name was Abdurrahman bin Abdullah al-Baghdadi, and he spent three years in Brazil, where he tried to teach the religion (althought the thing he enjoyed more here, according to his writings, was the nature, especially the fruits:p).

But there would two problems about the Brazilian government accepting Imans for the Muslim community. The first was the slavery proper. The black Muslims were in majority slaves, and no one wanted to have slaves more educated, and even worse, practicing a religion that wasn't the Catholicism. The authorities had the example of the Revolt of the Males, that happened in 1835 in Salvador, when a group of black Muslims tried to take the government of the city. They were easily defeated - after all, they were a minority, and even other slaves, especially those born in Brazil, fought against them - but it scared the authorities so much that many were sent back to Africa and the practice of Islamism was even more repressed. In the mind of the slaveholders be a Muslim became synonym of trouble, and so is difficult to imagine them allowing Imans to come to Brazil and teach the religion.

The second problem is that, at the time, Brazil didn't have a separation of Church and State, and so the only recognized religion in the country was the Catholicism. People didn't have civil documents, only religious ones. It meant that all documents you needed (baptism, matrimony and obituary) should come from the Church. The Protestants, for example, had some agreements with the civil authorities to have their documents accepted, but still had problems due to this religious policy. So, even the free blacks, who didn't have to obbey the orders of their masters, needed the Church to have acceptance within the society. To be a practicing Muslim and not have a Catholic Baptism would mean that you wouldn't be a recognized citizen, and so they tended to become Christian. Of course, things are more complex, as many blacks with a Muslim origin tended to follow in privacy a blend of African paganism, Catholicism and Islamism.

So, I think that if you want a more significant black Muslim community in Brazil - probably in Bahia, since that was the province that bought more Africans from the regions were black Muslims were sold as slaves - you need some earlier PODs. No rebellion in 1835 would help, as they wouldn't be so repressed and there would be more Muslims. Also, you would need an earlier abolition of slavery, and probably an earlier separation of Church and State too. It probably could be achieved more easily if Brazil (or at least Bahia) had become a Republic in the first half of the 19th century (although Pedro II personally was quite fond of Muslims, and one of his first international travels was to Egypt, Palestine, Lebanon, Syria and Constantinople).
 
Well, what Gonzaga said :D.

The Empire's religion was Catholicism, and even though it ceased to be officialy so since the 1st Republican Constitution of 1891, it did not lose its special legal position even today. For example, religious marriages from the Catholic Church can be converted to civil marriages with only the request from the couple, while for other religions, specially Afro-American ones and Espiritism, the religious marriage is null.

Although, without the Male's Revolt, and with an earlier abolition of slavery, there would be no need to kick Dom Pedro II, I guess (why do you hate the Braganças? :p). I don't know, maybe some commercial treaty, with a hidden clause ensuring the good treatment and education of Muslims in Brazil while assuring the good treatment of Christians in the Ottoman Empire? Really hard, and I'd imagine the outrage caused by this clause both here in Brazil and in other countries, specially the British.
 
The history of that Iman is nice. His name was Abdurrahman bin Abdullah al-Baghdadi, and he spent three years in Brazil, where he tried to teach the religion (althought the thing he enjoyed more here, according to his writings, was the nature, especially the fruits:p).

But there would two problems about the Brazilian government accepting Imans for the Muslim community. The first was the slavery proper. The black Muslims were in majority slaves, and no one wanted to have slaves more educated, and even worse, practicing a religion that wasn't the Catholicism. The authorities had the example of the Revolt of the Males, that happened in 1835 in Salvador, when a group of black Muslims tried to take the government of the city. They were easily defeated - after all, they were a minority, and even other slaves, especially those born in Brazil, fought against them - but it scared the authorities so much that many were sent back to Africa and the practice of Islamism was even more repressed. In the mind of the slaveholders be a Muslim became synonym of trouble, and so is difficult to imagine them allowing Imans to come to Brazil and teach the religion.

The second problem is that, at the time, Brazil didn't have a separation of Church and State, and so the only recognized religion in the country was the Catholicism. People didn't have civil documents, only religious ones. It meant that all documents you needed (baptism, matrimony and obituary) should come from the Church. The Protestants, for example, had some agreements with the civil authorities to have their documents accepted, but still had problems due to this religious policy. So, even the free blacks, who didn't have to obbey the orders of their masters, needed the Church to have acceptance within the society. To be a practicing Muslim and not have a Catholic Baptism would mean that you wouldn't be a recognized citizen, and so they tended to become Christian. Of course, things are more complex, as many blacks with a Muslim origin tended to follow in privacy a blend of African paganism, Catholicism and Islamism.

So, I think that if you want a more significant black Muslim community in Brazil - probably in Bahia, since that was the province that bought more Africans from the regions were black Muslims were sold as slaves - you need some earlier PODs. No rebellion in 1835 would help, as they wouldn't be so repressed and there would be more Muslims. Also, you would need an earlier abolition of slavery, and probably an earlier separation of Church and State too. It probably could be achieved more easily if Brazil (or at least Bahia) had become a Republic in the first half of the 19th century (although Pedro II personally was quite fond of Muslims, and one of his first international travels was to Egypt, Palestine, Lebanon, Syria and Constantinople).

There's no reason a treaty couldn't be signed to allow for Ottoman care of Brazilian Muslims - after all, the Ottomans had similar treaties regarding its Christian minorities. But there would have to be a compelling reason to do this, and there just isn't one. There was no critical trade between Brazil and the Ottoman Empire, and Brazil was in no particular danger of being militarily compelled by the Ottomans to improve the status of its Muslims.
 
The Empire's religion was Catholicism, and even though it ceased to be officialy so since the 1st Republican Constitution of 1891, it did not lose its special legal position even today. For example, religious marriages from the Catholic Church can be converted to civil marriages with only the request from the couple, while for other religions, specially Afro-American ones and Espiritism, the religious marriage is null.

Actually Protestant, Muslim and Jewish marriages can also be converted to civil ones, but all the other religions depends on the interpretation of a law from the 1950's (I may be mistaken, as this law might be even older, I can't remember now).

Although, without the Male's Revolt, and with an earlier abolition of slavery, there would be no need to kick Dom Pedro II, I guess (why do you hate the Braganças? :p).
I actually love the Braganças.:p I only think that an earlier abolition of slavery would be better achieved through a Republic. At the very least it could be achieved during the turbulence of the Regencial Period, but I'm not sure if the monarchy could survive that.

I don't know, maybe some commercial treaty, with a hidden clause ensuring the good treatment and education of Muslims in Brazil while assuring the good treatment of Christians in the Ottoman Empire? Really hard, and I'd imagine the outrage caused by this clause both here in Brazil and in other countries, specially the British.

There's no reason a treaty couldn't be signed to allow for Ottoman care of Brazilian Muslims - after all, the Ottomans had similar treaties regarding its Christian minorities. But there would have to be a compelling reason to do this, and there just isn't one. There was no critical trade between Brazil and the Ottoman Empire, and Brazil was in no particular danger of being militarily compelled by the Ottomans to improve the status of its Muslims.

Brazil had a treaty with the Ottoman Empire regarding Christian Lebanese and Syrian immigrants to the Brazilian Empire. I don't have the numbers now, but during the 1870's and 1880's the Lebanese were among the more numerous immigrants to Brazil. There was even an year when they were the second most important group of immigrants, just after the Italians.

Maybe the Ottomans could include in the treaty about the immigrants some article regarding the Brazilian Muslims, but as Abdul said, there would be no reason to Constantinople care about the fate of some few former slaves living in heresy in a distant and economically unimportant country in South America.
 
Actually Protestant, Muslim and Jewish marriages can also be converted to civil ones, but all the other religions depends on the interpretation of a law from the 1950's (I may be mistaken, as this law might be even older, I can't remember now).

There wasn't a restriction anywhere on the law (Lei 1.110/50), leaving to the notary discrection, which, of course, isn't the best option. Only with the new Civil Code religious marriages with similar rites than the civil marriage could be converted. I need to refrain from taking a look at this and study for the real exams :p

Brazil had a treaty with the Ottoman Empire regarding Christian Lebanese and Syrian immigrants to the Brazilian Empire. I don't have the numbers now, but during the 1870's and 1880's the Lebanese were among the more numerous immigrants to Brazil. There was even an year when they were the second most important group of immigrants, just after the Italians.
Yes, but these Syrians and Lebanese were mostly Maronite Christians, having no trouble to integrate in our society. I don't know if it would be possible to have a heavy influx of Muslim Arabs to Brazil.
 
Thanks for the answers! I imagined it was very hard to achieve this, but I found the idea interesting enough to give it a try.



Brazil had a treaty with the Ottoman Empire regarding Christian Lebanese and Syrian immigrants to the Brazilian Empire. I don't have the numbers now, but during the 1870's and 1880's the Lebanese were among the more numerous immigrants to Brazil. There was even an year when they were the second most important group of immigrants, just after the Italians.

Maybe the Ottomans could include in the treaty about the immigrants some article regarding the Brazilian Muslims, but as Abdul said, there would be no reason to Constantinople care about the fate of some few former slaves living in heresy in a distant and economically unimportant country in South America.

Yes, but these Syrians and Lebanese were mostly Maronite Christians, having no trouble to integrate in our society. I don't know if it would be possible to have a heavy influx of Muslim Arabs to Brazil.

Didn't some Muslims came along with these Lebanese Christians??? I remember reading that although those Syrians and Lebanese who came to Argentina where mostly Christian, some Muslims also came. However, the fact that these where mostly men, that they had come alone, and that they dispersed themselves in the deep interior of the country where there weren't any other Muslims made them and/or their descendants assimilate to the dominant religion of the country (unlike the Jews, who often come in organized groups, formed established comunities in Entre Ríos or santa Fe, and/or established themselves in the biggest cities). Did something similar happened in Brazil?

If some Muslim Lebanese had indeed come to Brazil and had found an active and significant community of black Muslims, could they have kept their faith? How would the local Black Muslim community and the newcommers Lebanese and Syrian immigrants get along? What would the long term effects of a significant Muslim minority in Brazil be?
 
Didn't some Muslims came along with these Lebanese Christians??? I remember reading that although those Syrians and Lebanese who came to Argentina where mostly Christian, some Muslims also came. However, the fact that these where mostly men, that they had come alone, and that they dispersed themselves in the deep interior of the country where there weren't any other Muslims made them and/or their descendants assimilate to the dominant religion of the country (unlike the Jews, who often come in organized groups, formed established comunities in Entre Ríos or santa Fe, and/or established themselves in the biggest cities). Did something similar happened in Brazil?

It was just like as you described that happened in Argentina. The few Muslims that came together with the Christian Lebaneses and Syrians eventually converted or their descedents were raised as Catholics. About the Jews, they went to the biggest cities also, except by the two agricultural Jewish colonies in Rio Grande do Sul, Philipson (in the municipality of Santa Maria) and Quatro Irmãos (in Erechim). Also, in the Amazon there are some interesting communities of Jews of Moroccan origin.


If some Muslim Lebanese had indeed come to Brazil and had found an active and significant community of black Muslims, could they have kept their faith? How would the local Black Muslim community and the newcommers Lebanese and Syrian immigrants get along? What would the long term effects of a significant Muslim minority in Brazil be?

The problem about this scenario is that the Lebanese wouldn't have access to slaves, and even if they had, or if they had contact with free Muslims, the majority of them were already so integrated with the Catholic blacks that they probably wouldn't want to try break the ties they had with the communities around them by following a different religion. Some might, of course, but I don't think they would rathe become a local curiosity somewhere than an important minority.

Also, there would be important cultural differences between the Lebanese and the former slaves, who generally already came to Brazil bringing some kind of blend between Islamism and African Paganism, and I'm not sure if each group wouldn't consider the other too allien to really care about.

For the consequences, I don't think it would change that much. IOTL the cities of the border with Argentina and Uruguay have an important Muslim minority (the town of Chui, in the border with Uruguay, even had a Muslim mayor) but that simply doesn't change that much the caracteristics of the region. Besides some important individuals who happen to be Muslims, I can't think of any important change that it might cause.
 
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