I think we are missing the easiest way to have a protastent pope. While it does not exactly meet the orginal post how about have a sitting pope convert to protastantsism
He would then be the defrocked and excommunicated Protestant ex-pope.
I think we are missing the easiest way to have a protastent pope. While it does not exactly meet the orginal post how about have a sitting pope convert to protastantsism
Luther and varius "companions" (Theodore Beza, John Calvin, Philipp Melanchthon, etc.), however, they WANTED to leave the Church to bring forward their ideas of "reform", they wanted to fight AGAINST the Church, transforming their religious sentiments into a mere political action, which was then exploited by a number of German princes as a tool to fight against the Emperor in order to guarantee themselves more freedom and autonomy with respect to the central imperial power.
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I can see this happening only if the reformation seeks the return of Catholicism to its Orthodox roots. ...
I'd argue it's more or less impossible to have a "Protestant" Pope, for the simple reason that if a radical reformer manages to make it into the Papacy, it has to be early enough before the split becomes final...
Which would likely mean, no Protestants. Not as we know them anyway.
What about letting Pope Adrian VI live longer? He was a northerner - something the Italians despised him for, but the cardinals elected him AFAIK because of his friendship with HRE Karl V. He was rather reform minded, but his papacy was clipped short by his death.
I suggest you learn a bit more about the reformation and why it is called such.
So, Luther's actions have nothing to do with the fact that the Papacy didn't want to deal with the corruption? Simply that he was self centred?But after, St. Francis has worked from the inside, Luther, perhaps because he put his self-centeredness in front of/prior to the ideas of reform, went outside.
So, Luther's actions have nothing to do with the fact that the Papacy didn't want to deal with the corruption? Simply that he was self centred?
There's no chance that you could be considered slightly partisan on this subject, is there?
I chose 15th century POD because I was well aware that Brandenburg was not in the hands of the Emperor anymore as Luther began nailing stuff on church doors.And how might the Habsburgs get hold of Brandenburg? Purchase or inheritance? Saxony and Bavaria were already fractured (Saxony going onto further fractures: Ernestine vs Albertine Saxony, Bavaria to unite as one state out of the union of Bavaria-Munich, Bavaria-Ingolstadt, Bavaria-Straubing etc).
And also, IMHO, it was only the Spanish crown/his upbringing that kept Karl V from converting, since two of his sisters developed Protestant tendencies during their time in the Netherlands. So much, that the House of Habsburg had to assure everyone that Isabella/Elisabeth (Karl's sister the queen of Denmark) had died a convinced Catholic. Mary of Hungary seemed to have likewise entertained an almost Elizabethan tendency as to her beliefs, but again, according to the Habsburgs she died a Catholic; and his bastard daughter, Margaret, likewise showed a certain sympathy towards the Protestants (whether out of conviction, or merely out of a reluctance to carry out Philip II's stringent orders, IDK).
Bold just to emphasise the irony.Jesus f#ç$;=g Christ Geordie don't you get it:
Catholics = good
Protestants = bad ... it says so in the bible![]()
Even for the Habsburg family, that's a fantastically lucky inheritance, coupled with the opposition hitting the self destruct button at precisely the right time. On the other hand, it is possible.My scenario:
Habsburgs have a great 15th century in Germany. Brandenburg becomes part of their realm. Saxony and Bavaria fracture. The mightiest Princes of the empire are the Prince-Archbishops of Cologne, Mainz and Trier.
When the Reformation kicks in in the early 16th century it might seem more appealing for the emperor than it did IOTL.
With the centre of reformation in Vienna and not Wittenberg it might spread to Hungary, Venice and northern Italy.
An ATL Thirty Years War could take place earlier and around the Alps. The conflict changes from a regional religous war to a Europe-spanning political war as in OTL. After decades of war the cities around the mediterrean are little more than ruin's and ash, the corps of men, women and children cover the fields of Lombardy and a Protestant sits on the throne of Saint Peter, a mere puppet of Vienna.
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