WI: A longer ACW and a 3rd Lincoln Presidency

I've been brainstorming a few ACW ATLs lately and another that I've just thought of doing involves both a longer ACW, that still ends in a union victory, and the possibility of Lincoln running for a third term. I want to try to make my POD as late as possible so that most of the events in the war, such as the trench warfare around Richmond, and Sherman's March, go unchanged. I'd then also like to see what kinds of situations the Northern and Southern armies would find themselves in if the war can extend past April 1865. I am mainly aiming for a POD that allows Lee to hold Richmond and then see what goes on from there.

Also I am not sure if this has been discussed before but since I want a longer ACW more then likely by some time Confederate black soldiers will eventually see action since they began training in Richmond during March 1865. With this in mind I was wondering what changes will likely occur due to their presence on the field and in the public eye. As well what differences would this make in the social reforms during the reconstruction era? I’m also hoping that I can put the south in such a bad situation that they eventually conscript women which I can then use as a way to speed up female rights in this TL. I got my inspiration for that from this - http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/civ...aising-armies/
Then with all of this in mind what do you think a full 2nd Lincoln presidency would be like during the reconstruction era, and what are his chances of a 3rd term.

I should also try to make it especially clear that I have no specific PODs or major events planed for this TL that I haven't explained above so please feel free to come up with as much as you would like to if this were you own idea.
 
The problem with a late PoD is finding something to change that has enough scope for longer-reaching effect. There have certainly been sieges where the besieged army held off the enemy who had to retire - Plevna in 1878, IIRC, and of course Paris in 1871 held out a long time. The problem would be keeping the city connected to a hinterland, rather than being a besieged island amongst a Union swamp.

Then there is the question of the now much-fragmented Confederacy trying to, and being able to fight on. I guess if it all goes guerilla it could get very painful in Sherman's ass.

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
The problem with a late PoD is finding something to change that has enough scope for longer-reaching effect. There have certainly been sieges where the besieged army held off the enemy who had to retire - Plevna in 1878, IIRC, and of course Paris in 1871 held out a long time. The problem would be keeping the city connected to a hinterland, rather than being a besieged island amongst a Union swamp.

Then there is the question of the now much-fragmented Confederacy trying to, and being able to fight on. I guess if it all goes guerilla it could get very painful in Sherman's ass.

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
So then does anyone hear know of any POD that could occur late in the war and thus extend it. The earliest I wanted to go was October 1864 but if no one thinks that can give enough time to cause a large enough change I can go earlier. Thanks.
 
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If the Union's position is much weaker than it was OTL when the 1864 election occurs the chances favor Lincoln being a one term president...
 
I understand the presidential elections will be in Nov. so whatever PODs may be possible I don't want them to be big enough to cost Lincoln the election. I'd also like to make the war go on until winter 1865 at the least, and January 1867 at the longest (Why? It just seems like a nice date) but I understand that may be too far fetched, and I definently want it to end it before the next election in 1868. Some changes that I already had in mind are having Bloody Bill Anderson survive past October 1864 so that the guerilla warfare in Missouri could escalate. I also thought about maybe preventing the battle of Franklin Tenn. which was a big Confederate loss that killed Patrick Cleburne who as I understand was a big asset.
 
I understand the presidential elections will be in Nov. so whatever PODs may be possible I don't want them to be big enough to cost Lincoln the election. I'd also like to make the war go on until winter 1865 at the least, and January 1867 at the longest (Why? It just seems like a nice date) but I understand that may be too far fetched, and I definently want it to end it before the next election in 1868. Some changes that I already had in mind are having Bloody Bill Anderson survive past October 1864 so that the guerilla warfare in Missouri could escalate. I also thought about maybe preventing the battle of Franklin Tenn. which was a big Confederate loss that killed Patrick Cleburne who as I understand was a big asset.


You might extend a few months but guerilla warfare in the ACW never did much outside slowing the Union down somewhat and by 1864-1865 it had a hard time doing that. If you get Hood to fight a fighting retreat in Georgia instead of hunting snipe in Tennesee then you might be able to extend the war a few months. The problem is if Lincoln gets re-elected the war is pretty much over. The South couldn't possilbly last another 4 years and only the most die hard Confederates didn't know that.
 
You might extend a few months but guerilla warfare in the ACW never did much outside slowing the Union down somewhat and by 1864-1865 it had a hard time doing that. If you get Hood to fight a fighting retreat in Georgia instead of hunting snipe in Tennesee then you might be able to extend the war a few months. The problem is if Lincoln gets re-elected the war is pretty much over. The South couldn't possilbly last another 4 years and only the most die hard Confederates didn't know that.
So how can a get Hood to take that plan of action. Are there any people in OTL who could provide some sort of information to the CS army that makes them change their plans. Also I don't think another 4 years is possible either the longest I'd like to go is 2.

Plus I also want to do an alternate of this alternate that ends in a CSA victory during Lincoln's 2nd presidency because I think by having him in office during such a victory would help to set up peaceful relations between north and south for the long run.
 
So how can a get Hood to take that plan of action. Are there any people in OTL who could provide some sort of information to the CS army that makes them change their plans. Also I don't think another 4 years is possible either the longest I'd like to go is 2.

Plus I also want to do an alternate of this alternate that ends in a CSA victory during Lincoln's 2nd presidency because I think by having him in office during such a victory would help to set up peaceful relations between north and south for the long run.

The real problem is if everyone knows the war can't possibly be won why fight? That was part of the problem Lee, Johnston, and Hood had in late 1864- early 1865. Their people were starting to desert in droves. There aren't many men out there willing to lose their lives for absolutely nothing.
 
I understand the presidential elections will be in Nov. so whatever PODs may be possible I don't want them to be big enough to cost Lincoln the election. I'd also like to make the war go on until winter 1865 at the least, and January 1867 at the longest (Why? It just seems like a nice date) but I understand that may be too far fetched, and I definently want it to end it before the next election in 1868. Some changes that I already had in mind are having Bloody Bill Anderson survive past October 1864 so that the guerilla warfare in Missouri could escalate. I also thought about maybe preventing the battle of Franklin Tenn. which was a big Confederate loss that killed Patrick Cleburne who as I understand was a big asset.

If you want that kind of POD, a Confederate smashing victory at Spring Hill would be the best shot at it, though how much good that would do Hood in practice is an interesting question, as *any* fight in that situation will take enormous casualties and deplete the AoT. And without Schofield trying and failing to be Starscream Thomas may and will crush even more soundly the remains of the AoT that get overconfident after the face.
 
It is a tricky one:

1. a victory at Spring Hill might shake things up;

2. what about a Trent Crisis Mark 2. Something so egregious the British have no choice but to go to war even with little prospect of helping the Confederacy to a win at this point?

3. wasn't there a plan for a major breakout of Confederate prisoners of war in Maryland or Delaware? I mean tens of thousands. That could come off. Do they try to flee back across the Chesapeake to Viriginia or do the run amok in Delaware and Maryland?

4. some kind of epidemic or humanitarian crisis causes the Union to agree a ceasefire for several weeks/months to facilitate peace talks that ultimately break down?

Just a few ideas that occurred to me.
 
It is a tricky one:

1. a victory at Spring Hill might shake things up;

2. what about a Trent Crisis Mark 2. Something so egregious the British have no choice but to go to war even with little prospect of helping the Confederacy to a win at this point?

3. wasn't there a plan for a major breakout of Confederate prisoners of war in Maryland or Delaware? I mean tens of thousands. That could come off. Do they try to flee back across the Chesapeake to Viriginia or do the run amok in Delaware and Maryland?

4. some kind of epidemic or humanitarian crisis causes the Union to agree a ceasefire for several weeks/months to facilitate peace talks that ultimately break down?

Just a few ideas that occurred to me.
I like this:D.
Something I have also wondered is if the war had gone on longer what migh Napolean III have done. He mainly gave up on Mexico after the ACW but if it goes on longer might he have been more drawn to help the South out since he already wanted to but couldn't get Britian to back him up. I also thought it would be an interesting scenario if he decided to do this through some sort of religous reawakening that causes him to seek favor with the Pope (whom I understand he had a complex relationship with) by aiding the confederacy, since the Pope gave the CSA his blessings, whether Britian backs him up or not. Any problems with this idea?
 
Continuing after Fall of Richmond?

Is there any chance of the Confederacy having a significant army in the field (non Guerrila) more than 6 months after the fall of Richmond? Or is Richmond remaining Confederate a requirement for extending the war...
 
I've been brainstorming a few ACW ATLs lately and another that I've just thought of doing involves both a longer ACW, that still ends in a union victory, and the possibility of Lincoln running for a third term. I want to try to make my POD as late as possible so that most of the events in the war, such as the trench warfare around Richmond, and Sherman's March, go unchanged. I'd then also like to see what kinds of situations the Northern and Southern armies would find themselves in if the war can extend past April 1865. I am mainly aiming for a POD that allows Lee to hold Richmond and then see what goes on from there.

Also I am not sure if this has been discussed before but since I want a longer ACW more then likely by some time Confederate black soldiers will eventually see action since they began training in Richmond during March 1865. With this in mind I was wondering what changes will likely occur due to their presence on the field and in the public eye. As well what differences would this make in the social reforms during the reconstruction era? I’m also hoping that I can put the south in such a bad situation that they eventually conscript women which I can then use as a way to speed up female rights in this TL. I got my inspiration for that from this - http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/civ...aising-armies/
Then with all of this in mind what do you think a full 2nd Lincoln presidency would be like during the reconstruction era, and what are his chances of a 3rd term.

I should also try to make it especially clear that I have no specific PODs or major events planed for this TL that I haven't explained above so please feel free to come up with as much as you would like to if this were you own idea.

Well, if you really want to extend the war, you could have a relatively big defeat for the Union in the beginning-middle of the war. Enough to knock them back a little, but no campaign enough to end the war, and just extend the war from then on.
 
Well, if you really want to extend the war, you could have a relatively big defeat for the Union in the beginning-middle of the war. Enough to knock them back a little, but no campaign enough to end the war, and just extend the war from then on.
Thanks, but I don't think I'm creative enough to rewrite the entire war half way through it. Thats why I was asking if there are options to place a POD in the last half year so that most of the majot events go unchanged. Also I wanted to create oppertunities for further the furthing of the use of trench warfar, Sherman's Total War methods, and other things that could create ideas developed in WW1 early in this TL so that when WW1 comes around things could be more interesting when the americans join:).
 
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