WI: a LHA with V22s embarked was in NYC on 9/11?

What if a Navy LHA Landing Helicopter Assault with V-22 tiltrotors aboard was in New York City on 9/11?

"What is it, Lieutenant?"

"Captain, I think I can get water or firefighting foam into those buildings."

"You've got my attention."

"What we do is get a water pump and firefighting hose reel from Damage Control and put them in the cargo area about at the CG then run the hose back to the rear ramp. The input hose runs through the belly hatch down to some kinda bucket we slingload underneath. We can dip the bucket in the river to fill it up. Cut the top off a Dumpster and weld on some pad eyes to lift it with."

"And you think you can do this?"

"Yes Captain. The Osprey's rotors' downwash won't blow the stream from the hose away like a helicopter's will."

"You're willing to do this?"

"Yes, sir. We might not be able to get close enough to the building for the water to reach but I think it's worth a try. The tail sticks out past the rotor blades so if we bump the building we won't lose the aircraft."

The Lieutenant paused a moment.

"What, Lieutenant?"

"If we had some kinda slide-out bridge we could get people off the floors above the fires. Need guys with sledgehammers to break out the windows. Might need them to keep us from getting overloaded, too."
 
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Wind turbulence around the buildings make this extremely risky. One of the several reasons choppers were not used for roof top evacuations after the aircraft attack. During the basement bombing there were some choppers landed on the roof, but it was difficult. IIRC someone had to jump or rope to the roof & cut away antenna guy cables as there was no actual landing pad.

I'm also aware from seeing my howitzers dropped from choppers how wind changes can destabilize a sling load threatening the bird with loss of rotor lift.
 
Wind turbulence around the buildings make this extremely risky. One of the several reasons choppers were not used for roof top evacuations after the aircraft attack. During the basement bombing there were some choppers landed on the roof, but it was difficult. IIRC someone had to jump or rope to the roof & cut away antenna guy cables as there was no actual landing pad.

I'm also aware from seeing my howitzers dropped from choppers how wind changes can destabilize a sling load threatening the bird with loss of rotor lift.

I think it's the kind of mission with a greater-than-zero percentage of success and less than 100% chance of getting killed that aviator-types might try. In their minds the worst case is being unable to get fire suppressant into the buildings - impossible to hold the hover close enough, suppressant stream getting blown around by the winds, water bucket instability - and having to stop.
 
MV-22 didn't hit IOC until 2007, unfortunately.

Could still examine the scenario with standard rotsry-eing assets though.
 
The V-22 also had a very troubled history an at that point it would have taken a very skilled and brave pilot.
 
MV-22 didn't hit IOC until 2007, unfortunately.
Could still examine the scenario with standard rotsry-eing assets though.

I think that the downwash from a helicopter's rotor would probably disperse the suppressant stream too much. That's why I thought of the V-22. Worth a try from a helicopter, though; out the rear hatch from a Chinook?.

The V-22 also had a very troubled history an at that point it would have taken a very skilled and brave pilot.

It's my impression that Naval Aviators have sufficient bravery to try it, and possibly the skill to pull it off.
 
Saving Tower Two

I wonder--if they were up when the second plane was inbound, could a pilot earn a posthumous medal of honor by ramming the incoming plane and diverting it?
 
I wonder--if they were up when the second plane was inbound, could a pilot earn a posthumous medal of honor by ramming the incoming plane and diverting it?

UA 175 almost missed Tower 2 as it was. Certainly a possibility of either ramming or causing it to evade and miss, assuming the pilot and/or crew was looking for another plane and had time to react.
 
Well, get a map of Manhatten & plot various outcomes from the aircraft being rammed at several points along the flight path. Once its crash site leaves the river & is over Manhatten the consequences are not good, perhaps worse depending on where it hits.
 
I think that the downwash from a helicopter's rotor would probably disperse the suppressant stream too much. That's why I thought of the V-22. Worth a try from a helicopter, though; out the rear hatch from a Chinook?.



It's my impression that Naval Aviators have sufficient bravery to try it, and possibly the skill to pull it off.

Down wash from the rotors would be the least of it. Thirty & forty knot winds whipping across the at that altitude are not unusual. When they interact with the surfaces and corners of of the buildings very unstable vortices are created, mini tornados if you will, trailing down wind for hundreds of meters. These can kill the lift of your rotors, or toss the aircraft into the side of the building or flip it over.
 
Down wash from the rotors would be the least of it. Thirty & forty knot winds whipping across the at that altitude are not unusual. When they interact with the surfaces and corners of of the buildings very unstable vortices are created, mini tornados if you will, trailing down wind for hundreds of meters. These can kill the lift of your rotors, or toss the aircraft into the side of the building or flip it over.

Oh, well. Yet another great idea that doesn't survive contact with reality. Would make for fascinating images, though - the Ospreys putting suppressant into the buildings, and the Rose Garden ceremony afterwards.
 
read "102 Minutes"... it makes a couple of things pretty clear

the people in the Twin Towers could not access the roof of either building because they were locked from central locations, and the power to those systems were knocked out instantly by the impact of the aircraft. The only people who had keys to override those locks manually were unable to get past the impact floors OR were above them but were out of communications and could not or did not reach the top floors to unlock them.

One tower because of the massive antenna could not be safely approached due to smoke and wind, while the other simply because of the level of smoke was such that by the time anyone could have reached the roof they would have died from smoke and heat

that book is a must read for anyone who wants to know how things happened and why on 9/11 inside the towers once the planes hit

102 minutes from impact to the final tower collapse
 
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