WI A later war of 1812

All true, I put the issue in 1819 just to avoid too much future gazing.



Hmm, well Jackson could have been explosive enough to spark a war. Wonder how Jackson (being older) would fare in a war time environment. He would probably never run for president.

Jackson might not amount to anything without his victory at New Orleans to propel him to fame and glory. He'll still be the champion of an Indian war, but without the greatest victory in American history (thus far) his star will never shine as bright. He made so many enemies throughout his career that without his great game I think someone will bury him in an election if he goes for the presidency. Adams hated him, Crawford hated him, Clay wasn't a fan.

One thing in 1819 would be Spain's position in Florida. Britain had been fooling around there for years until New Orleans smashed all of their intrigue on the Gulf Coast permanently. I can see them being very active 1812-19 in a peace scenario.

In OTL Monroe and Crawford (the top two contenders for the 1816 election) were both very pro war, but much of that had to do with the Orders in Council. I'm not sure either would be willing to declare war without something that big in the background.
 
I'm honestly quite baffled about how people are getting so worked up over what amounts to a two-century-old question of maritime law.

(Okay, maybe that's somewhat facetious. There were more important things than jurisdiction at stake. Still, though, it seems a bit surreal to watch people argue about this as though it were happening today.)
 
I'm honestly quite baffled about how people are getting so worked up over what amounts to a two-century-old question of maritime law.

(Okay, maybe that's somewhat facetious. There were more important things than jurisdiction at stake. Still, though, it seems a bit surreal to watch people argue about this as though it were happening today.)

Hear hear! As I mentioned earlier, I believe that it is a matter of what sacred cows are being gored that is the question.

Canada never did anything to deserve being invaded in the War of 1812. They just innocently got caught in the crossfire. YES, there were expansionist /imperialist forces within the USA that wanted the war, but without the emotional and political dynamite of Impressment, (1) there's no way there can be sufficient "war fever" within the body politic of the US Congress to get a declaration of war. TBH, I believe that there may be too much "projection" of modern day circumstances (or at least from the Mexican War, which certainly WAS an Imperialist War by the US against Mexico).

1) I'm more than willing to accept that the Natives and Canada has ZERO war guilt in the War of 1812, while the US has PLENTY of war guilt IF you limit American war guilt to attacks on the innocent Canadians and ESPECIALLY the poor Natives.:'( But the handwaving in the name of ignoring or splitting legalistic hairs over the "insignificance" or even fully justified impressment of seamen from American vessels (civilian and warships), while disregarding the sovereignty of neutral powers on those vessels...these were not smugglers after all. And this wasn't a matter of seizing contraband cargoes.

If someone reaches an American vessel, civilian or warship, they are on American territory. The Simas Kudirka Affair is a perfect example of this. However, I'll grant that the Laws of the Sea as of the 1810s may have been too primitive to cover examples like this subject.

As to Britain's role in the causes of the war, you can consider that it was true that even before the explosion of the Napoleonic Wars got started in earnest Britain did NOT in fact really consider its former Colonies to be a truly sovereign nation, but rather an aberration of failed policies that had to be tolerated (temporarily?:mad::eek::angel:). And in all honesty, its not like other powers (major & minor) didn't act in the same way (2) in seeing the US as a "very minor" power not worthy of any respect.

2) See: The XYZ Affair (France), and later the Tripolitan Wars (the Beys and Deys of NW Africa), both pre-War of 1812.

Grr...Once again, I screwed up my emboldening. Most of this wasn't supposed to be like this. Sorry. Again.:happyblush:'(:'(:'(
 
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