WI: A former Catholic for Queen Consort of Great Britain

I've never actually seen a thread on this before, nor do I remember seeing such an idea mentioned. As we all know the British Act of Settlement banned Catholics and those married to Catholics from the throne. However it never mentioned former Catholics. So, assuming one can get a Catholic Princess to convert, would she be an acceptable Royal bride or would Parliament promptly freakout? Would it depend on just which Royal House is being considered, like an Infanta of Portugal or Princess of Saxony over an Archduchess of Austria or Princesse of France? Assuming no last minute attempt to ban such a marriage, how would the public react? Happy that it's not another German (depending on the bride), anger at a Papist sleeper agent or just indifference?
 
The Act of Settlement was around 1700 (I think 1701, but I'm going on memory): Part and parcel of the marriage contract with the converting Catholic Princess would include the following: all children will be raised CoE, none will go to mass (even with maternal relatives), and most likely, none of the children will be allowed to wed Catholics, period. Any relatives of said defecting Catholic royal will attend CoE service and if they insist on confession/mass, will have to do it privately and not in the same building (preferably city) of the children and the ex-Catholic spouse. Said spouse will be uber-Church of England, attending all services and her kids will just hate the church of England because their mom was so religious.

That all being said, to get someone to change their religion usually requires that the person whose religion is to be preferred have a pretty high position to offer the religious 'defector'.
 
I'm sure I read somewhere that one of Vicky's boys was going to marry a Princess of Orleans but the conversion or something or rather fell through. It was a few years back and on Wikipedia so take what you will.
Otherwise Camilla somewhat fills the criteria apart from A) Still Catholic and B) She's alive and not Queen yet.
 
I'm sure I read somewhere that one of Vicky's boys was going to marry a Princess of Orleans but the conversion or something or rather fell through. It was a few years back and on Wikipedia so take what you will.

Otherwise Camilla somewhat fills the criteria apart from A) Still Catholic and B) She's alive and not Queen yet.

That (marriage not going through due to religious difficulties) happened quite often.

Camilla is NOT Catholic, she's CoE. But I can understand where your confusion comes in: Her ex-husband is, she married in a RC ceremony and raised her children RC (required for marriage in RC ceremony back then). Had she been RC at the time she wed Prince Charles, he would have had to do as Prince Michael of Kent did: renounce his place in the succession. That law was just changed, it was not in place at the time of their marriage.
 
The Act of Settlement was around 1700 (I think 1701, but I'm going on memory): Part and parcel of the marriage contract with the converting Catholic Princess would include the following: all children will be raised CoE, none will go to mass (even with maternal relatives), and most likely, none of the children will be allowed to wed Catholics, period. Any relatives of said defecting Catholic royal will attend CoE service and if they insist on confession/mass, will have to do it privately and not in the same building (preferably city) of the children and the ex-Catholic spouse. Said spouse will be uber-Church of England, attending all services and her kids will just hate the church of England because their mom was so religious.

That all being said, to get someone to change their religion usually requires that the person whose religion is to be preferred have a pretty high position to offer the religious 'defector'.

Wouldn't most of those points depend on when the marriage takes place? If, for example, George III married a Portuguese Infanta (out there I know but José I was in a fight with the Papacy for much of his reign so might be possible under specific circumstances) , then there would be no opportunity for the royal children to be exposed to Catholicism outside their mother. Though I'm not sure about Catholic attendants in such a scenario. As for the incentive, wouldn't becoming Queen of Great Britain and Ireland be enough?

I'm sure I read somewhere that one of Vicky's boys was going to marry a Princess of Orleans but the conversion or something or rather fell through. It was a few years back and on Wikipedia so take what you will. Otherwise Camilla somewhat fills the criteria apart from A) Still Catholic and B) She's alive and not Queen yet.

Close. Victoria's grandson Prince Albert Victor, Duke of Clarence was in love with Princesse Héléne d'Oléans and the two wanted to wed; even got the Queen's permission to do so. However Héléne's father Philippe VII, Comte de Paris wouldn't let her convert and appealed to Pope Leo XIII, who also refused to grant her permission. That was the end of the affair.
 
The problem with this idea, is that there are always going to be those in the English public who are going to be whispering that the queen's conversion isn't sincere. Although, I read in Flora Fraser's bio of Caroline of Brunswick that [Protestant] princesses were generally raised "without religion" so that they could more easily conform to the religion of their husbands. Now this doesn't mean we're breeding agnostics or anything, just that they get taught about God and the Bible, without the dogma/fundamental rules. Their Catholic brethren, OTOH, seemed to have religious instruction as part of their education. Some were only given that (see Louis XV's younger daughters), and little else.

To get a Catholic girl to convert would require some hoops to jump through, José of Portugal might have been light with the papacy, but the OTL marriage offer from Portugal to England was explicitly not to George III, but rather either the duke of Cumberland (who was also spoken of as marrying a princess of Savoy or Modena) IIRC. Now, how do we assure the public that Princess Maria (seems a reasonable name for a Catholic) is not backslidden from the CoE to Rome? IDK. It's gonna be supremely difficult, since there are going to be those that are going to see secret masses and priests in disguise where there aren't any.

A far simpler way of getting it done is by a king - already crowned and annointed - marrying a Catholic. There'll still be whispers, but the various Acts prohibiting marriage to a Catholic are worded in such a way that it speaks of any person of the royal family marrying a papist, rather than the reigning king himself. It's a small loophole, but I would imagine that parliament/England can't do much about it if George II/IV (who both outlived their first/second wives), once crowned, and ruling for x-period, decides to marry a princess of a Catholic country. Of course, the country she hails from is going to play a role in her reception. If it's France/Spain chances are good it won't go over well. If it's some little pinchbeck dukedom in Germany that just happens to be Catholic, it might not even raise a murmur beyond "but she's Catholic". If she's domestic (a Howard, for instance), it won't go over well at all (since what does she bring to the table? The king is thinking with his little brain?), but they'll murmur better an English Catholic than a foreigner, I guess.

PS. Please note that this is simply my interpretation. I could be wrong about a lot of things.
 
That explains a lot, I grew up with being told she was Catholic plus Wikipedia really doesn't help. Glad someone knows all the gossip Desmirelle

I don't know gossip, what I know is that only now has the rule if you're married to a Catholic you have to give up your place been changed (along with male preference among siblings). That's also how I know the Queen isn't bypassing Charles for William as the next King - it would take another act of Parliament.
 
What about a reverse, with a Queen Regnant marrying a former Catholic Prince? Let's say Queen Victoria marries an Orléans Prince, either the Prince de Joinville or the Duc d'Aumale. The Orléans had at two interfaith marriages (the Duc d'Orléans and Helene of Mecklenburg-Schwerin, Louise d'Orléans and Leopold of Belgium, Victoria's uncle) so having a Prince convert for the British throne isn't that crazy to consider. Plus this is after Catholic emancipation and the Orléans had great liberal credentials, at least in comparison to other continental monarchies, so a lot of the traditional reasons to oppose a convert match would have faded. So thoughts?
 
Oh, good, I can answer #12 without research. If the government doesn't approve, they resign. If no government can be re-formed immediately (a coalition government), then elections are held and the chief point of debate within the election will be the monarch's proposed choice of spouse. (This was one of the reasons King Edward VIII decided against remaining King and abdicated instead, he couldn't bear to have Wallis subjected to the public scrutiny and political enmity this would entail; reality for him was a bitch - he thought everyone would just go along with him because Wallis was the 'perfect woman'.)

I read the act, though. (Thank you, Jonas, I'd been meaning to read it for another story, but could not find my round tuit.) If the reigning King/Queen gets engaged to an unsuitable person (the person converts but still goes to mass, has an RC priest as a 'private secretary', etc), the above paragraph will probably be the outcome.

If the person is NOT the King/Queen, there's always the permission bit: wait until you're 25 to get around that. But Parliament doesn't have to approve and that will be seen in the civil list (I think that's what it's called). Prince Fiddlesticks wants to wed Lady Catherine 'No, Not That One' Howard, a nice girl who has forsaken her born religion for his but is still viewed with suspicions, can still go ahead and wed the saucy minx, and Parliament will not ceded him any money for maintenance when they settle up the budget. And, I believe Parliament can take Fiddlesticks out of the succession if the distrust goes far enough.

The further down the list in succession, the more leeway (theoretically).
 
Oh, good, I can answer #12 without research. If the government doesn't approve, they resign. If no government can be re-formed immediately (a coalition government), then elections are held and the chief point of debate within the election will be the monarch's proposed choice of spouse. (This was one of the reasons King Edward VIII decided against remaining King and abdicated instead, he couldn't bear to have Wallis subjected to the public scrutiny and political enmity this would entail; reality for him was a bitch - he thought everyone would just go along with him because Wallis was the 'perfect woman'.)

I read the act, though. (Thank you, Jonas, I'd been meaning to read it for another story, but could not find my round tuit.) If the reigning King/Queen gets engaged to an unsuitable person (the person converts but still goes to mass, has an RC priest as a 'private secretary', etc), the above paragraph will probably be the outcome.

If the person is NOT the King/Queen, there's always the permission bit: wait until you're 25 to get around that. But Parliament doesn't have to approve and that will be seen in the civil list (I think that's what it's called). Prince Fiddlesticks wants to wed Lady Catherine 'No, Not That One' Howard, a nice girl who has forsaken her born religion for his but is still viewed with suspicions, can still go ahead and wed the saucy minx, and Parliament will not ceded him any money for maintenance when they settle up the budget. And, I believe Parliament can take Fiddlesticks out of the succession if the distrust goes far enough.

The further down the list in succession, the more leeway (theoretically).

So would a convert Prince be acceptable or not? I mean I can't see someone convert then obviously troll by having a Catholic Priest as secretary or attend mass. I admit maybe a mass while visiting family but as long as he's not taking communion it might not be a big deal. As long as it's after the marriage the government isn't going to force the Queen to abdicate or divorce him. Plus technically all the Act says is once cannot marry a Catholic and remain in the line of succession; it doesn't say anything about a conversion after the marriage; that's how the Duke of Kent remained in line after his wife Katharine converted in 1994. Though to be honest I can't see anyone splitting hairs like that in the 1800s.

As to my scenario, considering how close Lord Melbourne and Victoria were and the close Anglo-French relations/alliance, I can't see his government opposing the marriage. The Orléans would likely have to renounce his rights of succession (maybe some deal; like his Protestant descendants are in line for Britain but any Catholics can inherit in France?) but other than that, no real issue.
 
It will depend on the perceived sincerity of the conversion. (But there will be no going to mass with the family, no matter what - too easily 'misconstrued'.)
 
It will depend on the perceived sincerity of the conversion. (But there will be no going to mass with the family, no matter what - too easily 'misconstrued'.)

I suppose your right; no need to push the envelope. Aumale would be the most interesting if the Queen's OK with a three year age difference; he was filthy rich, the sole heir to the vast Condé fortune and seemed to have a great business sense. Bringing that experience to Britain would have the potential to expand the Crown's coffers and land holdings in a way similar to but likely better than Prince Albert. Though an Orléans Consort would prove detrimental if the July Monarchy is still deposed and the Bonapartists return to power. It would be pretty awkward for sure. I wonder if Napoléon III would still size the Orléans assets and risk angering Britain. But on the other hand, the July Monarchy could survive with an 1840 POD: Ferdinand Philippe, Duc d'Orléans and Prince Royal, was very popular and could have probably saved his father's crown. It was his accidental death in 1842 that really sent the regíme into a tale spin, lacking the Duc's popularity to shield the government.
 
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