ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS: A big thanks to "consulting admirals" @jsb @Luminous @hipper @RamscoopRaider @steamboy for their stellar contributions to this thread. It would not be half as interesting without them!
For the uninitiated, US hull classification symbols are used as abbreviations for ship types. This is not an exhaustive list, there are more but these are the ones used in this thread. They are, as follows:
BB: Battleship
FBB/BBF (unofficial) Fast Battleship
CC: Battlecruiser
CA: Heavy (8" main gun) Gun Cruiser
CL: Light (<6" main gun) Gun Cruiser
CV: Fleet Aircraft Carrier
CVL: Light Aircraft Carrier
CVE: Escort Aircraft Carrier
DD: Destroyer
DL: Destroyer Leader
SS: Submarine (now Diesel-powered Attack Submarine)
CLV: Light Aviation Cruiser (not used OTL)
CAV: Heavy Aviation Cruiser (not used OTL)
CB: Large Cruiser omitted with prejudice; please no Alaska-class debate ITT.
In orders of battle (OOB) posted, I have done so in the following format to make it easier if you are not already familiar with the ships, and to make direct comparisons easier, especially since I have modified some classes vs. their OTL completion. The format is:
Class name (year lead ship laid down) (number of ships in class)
Ship Type
Dimensions: Length (overall) x Beam (overall) x Draught
Displacement Tonnage at Standard Load, rounded down to nearest thousand
Main Armament (capital ships) / Air Wing (carriers)
Top Speed in Knots
Ship Names
Notes about class
POD: 1921-22
WASHINGTON, DC, USA:
April 17th, 1922
The world's major naval powers, after much debate, have finally settled on a treaty to curb the ever-growing threat of a naval arms race. The treaty achieved its aims of defining various ship types, and restricting the size of battle fleets in the years to come.
According to the Treaty:
Destroyer: Any combat vessel displacing no more than 1850 tons, and guns no more than 4.5" in caliber
Cruiser: Any combat vessel displacing between 1851 and 10 000 tons, and guns no more than 8" in caliber
Capital Ship: Any combat vessel, irrespective of speed, armor or armament, which displaces in excess of 10 000 tons at normal load. No further restrictions on size or gun caliber.
Aircraft Carrier: A vessel constructed primarily to launch and recover aircraft regardless of tonnage, provided it mounts guns no larger than 6" in caliber.
The signatories are permitted the following strength ratios for capital ships:
5 (USA, GB) : 3 (Japan) : 1.75 (France, Italy); this, in turn, translates to capital ship allotment of 20, 12, and 7 respectively.
The numbers are based on the powers' acceptance of Japan's ambitions to build an "Eight-Four" fleet. Initially, the Diet of Japan had approved an "Eight-Eight" plan, but the USA balked at this, and Britain too was concerned.
However, Japanese negotiators appealed to their British counterparts, citing the threat of an aggressively expansionist Soviet Union, which may turn East after the loss of the Polish-Soviet War, argued that a larger Japanese fleet would not be used as "escorts for invasion barges bound for Australia"; and that Japan and Britain were natural allies rather than enemies. The Anglo-Japanese Mutual Non-Interference Pact of 1921 solidified their case.
US negotiators were more skeptical; they appealed to Britain to talk the Japanese down. However, the British team was eager to end the negotiations, and confided to the US team that Japan would run out of money long before they'd be able to build sixteen capital ships and that even twelve would be a stretch. Even the Japanese fleet of the day cost Japan a third of her budget- if anything, if the USA were so worried, this simply gave Japan the rope to hang herself with.
Japan was reluctantly persuaded to accept the "Eight-Four" restriction- they could, without breaching the terms of the Treaty, construct the additional four, but doing so would trigger an escalator clause which would allow the USA and Britain to construct an additional number of ships to keep the strength ratio the same- when rounding, it would allow the USA and Britain to construct an additional 7 capital ships each - fourteen against the Japanese four.
Ships were required to be scrapped in order to maintain this ratio, but there was no further restriction on construction. As per the terms of the treaty, ships must be scrapped or demilitarized prior to the construction of new classes at this round of the treaty.
---------
London, 1930:
The major powers are concerned about the increasing costs (Japan, notably, is spending nearly or by some estimates more than half of her national budget on her Navy), and the huge destructive potential of their ever-growing navies. This second round introduces the following reforms:
-A five-year "Holiday" on shipbuilding; no new capital ship or aircraft carrier production would be permitted within that time frame
-After the 5 years, any new capital ships were to be restricted to 35 000 tons and only to replace ships older than 15 years, not to add fleet capacity. Britain proposed a main battery caliber restriction of 14", but Japan and the USA insisted on 16"; as such, the latter was adopted.
------------
By 1938, the Treaty is useless. Germany and the Soviet Union are no longer disguising the fact that they are planning and building capital ships. The USA and Japan have proposed designs that nearly double their allotted tonnage, and even Britain's King George V class is well in excess of it.
------
August 31st, 1939
According to WP's Fighting Ships, the nations' orders of battle for capital ships, is as follows:
*= under construction
**=proposed
^=under refit
o=training ship
x=broken up
Royal Navy (United Kingdom):
Battleships:
Queen Elizabeth Class (1914) (5 ships) 645'x104'x32', 33 000 tons approx. at deep load.
Queen Elizabeth
Warspite
Valiant
^Barham
^Malaya
The former 3 received significant reconstructions in the early 1930s, including block superstructures and revised armament. The latter are currently undergoing refit to match their sisters.
Revenge Class (1916) (5 ships) 625'x90'x33.7', 31 000 tons approx. at deep load.
xRevenge
Royal Sovereign
oRoyal Oak
Ramillies
Resolution
Slower, less capable, better protected, and cheaper than the "Queens", these ships were regarded as second-class and received little in the way of improvements after the Great War. Revenge damaged in a collision on exercises in 1932; never repaired after damage from subsequent grounding was discovered to be more extensive than previously thought.
N3 (Triumph) Class (1924) (2 ships) 820'x106'x32', 50 000 tons approx. at deep load.
Triumph
Swiftsure
Initially intended to be a class of 4 battleships named after the patron saints of the countries that form the United Kingdom, it was cut down to 2 due to budgetary constraints. Although slow, with only 56 000 shp from 2 shafts, they are currently the world's most heavily armed ships with a main battery of 9 Mark II BL 18-inch L/45 guns arranged in 3 triple turrets; and are among the world's best protected.
King George V Class (1937) (5 ships) 793'x105'x33.6', 45 000 tons approx. at deep load.
King George V
Prince of Wales
*Duke of York
*Lion
*Temeraire
Initially proposed with an armament of 10x14" guns, the design was revised to incorporate 9x16" guns in 3 triple turrets. These fast battleships are intended to sail at up to 28.25 knots and incorporate the latest advances in protection to date, having fully realized the lessons of Jutland
**Vanguard Class (1941) (1 ship) 955'x118'x32', 68 000 tons approx. at deep load.
Vanguard
Initially intended to be part of a 6-ship King George V class, Vanguard was instead split off to make use of spare 18" guns built for the never-completed members of the Triumph class. The design is essentially a modernized and scaled-up "KG5", and will carry the armament of the former at speeds greater than the latter. Design work is progressing, and the RN intends to have the keel laid by 1941
Battlecruisers:
Renown Class (1916) (2 ships) 794'x90'x31.9', 32 000 tons approx. at deep load.
Renown
Repulse
Britain's oldest battlecruisers; but still valuable members of the Fleet. Renown underwent modernization in 1936; Repulse scheduled to enter refit this year, but poor condition of HMS Hood will make postponement necessary
Admiral Class (1920) (1 ship) 860'x104'x32', 48 000 tons approx. at deep load (current); 911'x104'x33', 51 000 tons approx. at deep load (proposed)
^Hood
"The Mighty 'Ud" is the only battlecruiser of her kind, the world's largest warship at the time of her commissioning. After Jutland, her design was revised numerous times, but never fully rectified her issues. Still, with her high speed, long, lean lines and powerful armament, she has carried the White Ensign and Union Jack around the world.
In July of 1939, she finally entered drydock for a major reconstruction. Her deck armor is to be strengthened, anti-flash measures and improved protection for her 4" magazines and a block superstructure are to be added. Her 2 funnels will be trunked into 1, and reboilering and replacement of her turbines will take place; additional octuple "pom-pom" mounts to be added abaft her new funnel. To reduce weight, her torpedoes and their directors will be removed. To increase freeboard and solve the longstanding problems of her being a wet ship, she will be fitted with a higher bow and her stern will be lengthened to increase buoyancy.
G3 (Nelson) Class (1925) (2 ships) 856'x106'x35.8', 54 000 tons approx. at deep load.
Nelson
Rodney
Related to the development of the Triumph-class, these ships were also intended to be a class of 4, cut down to 2 due to budgetary constraints. Faster., with 4 shafts and 160 000 shp, they carry a lighter armament then their cousins, but heavy nonetheless, with 9 16" guns in 3 triple turrets.
Carriers:
As in OTL, except 2 incomplete Admirals (Anson, Howe) were converted to carriers instead of being scrapped.
Imperial Japanese Navy (Japan)
Battleships:
Fuso Class (1914) (2 ships) 665'x94'x28', 29 000 tons approx. at standard load.
xFuso
xYamashiro
Scrapped 1922 per Treaty
Ise Class (1916) (2 ships) 683'x94'x29.4', 31 000 tons approx. at standard load.
Ise
Hyuga
Converted to carriers to prevent scrapping
Nagato Class (1918) (2 ships) 738'x113'x31.2', 38 000 tons approx. at standard load.
Nagato
Mutsu
The foundation pillars of Japan's modern battle fleet
Tosa Class (1922) (1 ship) 790'x115'x32', 45 000 tons approx. at standard load.
Tosa
Much like an enlarged Nagato with an extra turret abaft the superstructure. The second ship was converted to a carrier part way through construction as more advanced battleship designs came available- the revolutionary Kii
Kii Class (1925) (1 ship) 860'x116'x33', 52 000 tons approx. at standard load.
Kii
HIJMS Kii represents the fusion of the battlecruiser and battleship concepts in the IJN. Fast as a battlecruiser and powerful as a battleship, it was nonetheless quickly eclipsed by the even larger Yamatos. One was built, as it was not yet known whether reliable 18" guns would be available for the Yamatos.
Yamato (Number 13) Class (1927-9) (2 ships) 950'x118'x33', 55 000 tons approx. at standard load.
Yamato
^Musashi
Yamato and Musashi were the most advanced ships in the world when they were launched. 4 were planned, but their huge costs allowed only 2 to be built. Armed with 8 18.1" guns and with a speed of some 31 knots, they are the most heavily armed fast battleships in the world. Musahsi is currently refitting; Yamato having completed hers earlier this year. Reboilered, their pagoda masts made even taller, casemated secondaries replaced with turreted secondaries, torpedo bulges added; sterns lengthened 50' to improve freeboard and fineness to offset weight and beam increase.
Shinano (Yamato) Class (1941 estimated) (2-5? ships) 862'x127x34', 72 000 tons approx. at full load
*Shinano
** Unknown Hull
Little is yet known about these super battleships to be undergoing construction under top secrecy in Japan. Should these initial speculations as to their dimensions and capabilities prove true, they will be the most powerful ships ever launched, exceeding even the Yamatos.
Battlecruisers:
Kongo Class (1913) (4 ships) 728'x101'x28', 32 000 tons approx. at standard load.
Kongo
Hiei
Kirishima
Haruna
Japan's oldest battlecruisers, recently re-rated as fast battleships. They remain capable and versatile.
Amagi Class (1923) (1 ship) 866'x115'x31', 47 000 tons approx. at standard load.
xAmagi
Akagi
Takao (converted to carrier)
Amagi was damaged so badly during an earthquake she could not be completed and her remains scrapped; Takao converted to carrier during construction, leaving only Akagi in her class. Essentially a lengthened Tosa, she is much faster and her armor only one inch thinner. Re-rated fast battleship during her 1937 refit, during which her pagoda mast was increased in height, additional AA and directors added, and stern lengthened 40'.
United States of America (United States Navy)
To keep length manageable, same as OTL except:
3 Lexington class battlecruisers completed as such; the other 2 as carriers. Commissioned 1924-6
2 North Carolinas launched 1936
2 South Dakotas 1937-8
6 Iowas laid down starting 1938, the last completed in 1943
5 Montanas ordered, 3 laid down starting 1940, 2 completed 1944
Nazi Germany / Soviet Union
I'm not even sure you could build H-39 or Sovetsky Soyouz classes even taking as many liberties as I have.
Perhaps, 2 H-39s could have been built, Hindenburg and Friedrich der Grosse, as shorter, wider Bismarcks with six 42cm guns in 3 turrets and all-diesel propulsion, accepting a lower top speed. Hitler could also browbeat Raeder and Goering enough to make Graf Zeppelin sail as well.
France/Italy
With the state of industry and economy, not sure much more could have been built. Maybe some more Surcouf cruiser-submarines for France, or a bigger one with a 280mm+ gun
To all- do you think a scenario such as this would have impacted the course of the war at all, or would all this glorious iron simply mean bigger war graves, sent to the bottom by torpedoes and bombs?
For the uninitiated, US hull classification symbols are used as abbreviations for ship types. This is not an exhaustive list, there are more but these are the ones used in this thread. They are, as follows:
BB: Battleship
FBB/BBF (unofficial) Fast Battleship
CC: Battlecruiser
CA: Heavy (8" main gun) Gun Cruiser
CL: Light (<6" main gun) Gun Cruiser
CV: Fleet Aircraft Carrier
CVL: Light Aircraft Carrier
CVE: Escort Aircraft Carrier
DD: Destroyer
DL: Destroyer Leader
SS: Submarine (now Diesel-powered Attack Submarine)
CLV: Light Aviation Cruiser (not used OTL)
CAV: Heavy Aviation Cruiser (not used OTL)
CB: Large Cruiser omitted with prejudice; please no Alaska-class debate ITT.
In orders of battle (OOB) posted, I have done so in the following format to make it easier if you are not already familiar with the ships, and to make direct comparisons easier, especially since I have modified some classes vs. their OTL completion. The format is:
Class name (year lead ship laid down) (number of ships in class)
Ship Type
Dimensions: Length (overall) x Beam (overall) x Draught
Displacement Tonnage at Standard Load, rounded down to nearest thousand
Main Armament (capital ships) / Air Wing (carriers)
Top Speed in Knots
Ship Names
Notes about class
POD: 1921-22
WASHINGTON, DC, USA:
April 17th, 1922
The world's major naval powers, after much debate, have finally settled on a treaty to curb the ever-growing threat of a naval arms race. The treaty achieved its aims of defining various ship types, and restricting the size of battle fleets in the years to come.
According to the Treaty:
Destroyer: Any combat vessel displacing no more than 1850 tons, and guns no more than 4.5" in caliber
Cruiser: Any combat vessel displacing between 1851 and 10 000 tons, and guns no more than 8" in caliber
Capital Ship: Any combat vessel, irrespective of speed, armor or armament, which displaces in excess of 10 000 tons at normal load. No further restrictions on size or gun caliber.
Aircraft Carrier: A vessel constructed primarily to launch and recover aircraft regardless of tonnage, provided it mounts guns no larger than 6" in caliber.
The signatories are permitted the following strength ratios for capital ships:
5 (USA, GB) : 3 (Japan) : 1.75 (France, Italy); this, in turn, translates to capital ship allotment of 20, 12, and 7 respectively.
The numbers are based on the powers' acceptance of Japan's ambitions to build an "Eight-Four" fleet. Initially, the Diet of Japan had approved an "Eight-Eight" plan, but the USA balked at this, and Britain too was concerned.
However, Japanese negotiators appealed to their British counterparts, citing the threat of an aggressively expansionist Soviet Union, which may turn East after the loss of the Polish-Soviet War, argued that a larger Japanese fleet would not be used as "escorts for invasion barges bound for Australia"; and that Japan and Britain were natural allies rather than enemies. The Anglo-Japanese Mutual Non-Interference Pact of 1921 solidified their case.
US negotiators were more skeptical; they appealed to Britain to talk the Japanese down. However, the British team was eager to end the negotiations, and confided to the US team that Japan would run out of money long before they'd be able to build sixteen capital ships and that even twelve would be a stretch. Even the Japanese fleet of the day cost Japan a third of her budget- if anything, if the USA were so worried, this simply gave Japan the rope to hang herself with.
Japan was reluctantly persuaded to accept the "Eight-Four" restriction- they could, without breaching the terms of the Treaty, construct the additional four, but doing so would trigger an escalator clause which would allow the USA and Britain to construct an additional number of ships to keep the strength ratio the same- when rounding, it would allow the USA and Britain to construct an additional 7 capital ships each - fourteen against the Japanese four.
Ships were required to be scrapped in order to maintain this ratio, but there was no further restriction on construction. As per the terms of the treaty, ships must be scrapped or demilitarized prior to the construction of new classes at this round of the treaty.
---------
London, 1930:
The major powers are concerned about the increasing costs (Japan, notably, is spending nearly or by some estimates more than half of her national budget on her Navy), and the huge destructive potential of their ever-growing navies. This second round introduces the following reforms:
-A five-year "Holiday" on shipbuilding; no new capital ship or aircraft carrier production would be permitted within that time frame
-After the 5 years, any new capital ships were to be restricted to 35 000 tons and only to replace ships older than 15 years, not to add fleet capacity. Britain proposed a main battery caliber restriction of 14", but Japan and the USA insisted on 16"; as such, the latter was adopted.
------------
By 1938, the Treaty is useless. Germany and the Soviet Union are no longer disguising the fact that they are planning and building capital ships. The USA and Japan have proposed designs that nearly double their allotted tonnage, and even Britain's King George V class is well in excess of it.
------
August 31st, 1939
According to WP's Fighting Ships, the nations' orders of battle for capital ships, is as follows:
*= under construction
**=proposed
^=under refit
o=training ship
x=broken up
Royal Navy (United Kingdom):
Battleships:
Queen Elizabeth Class (1914) (5 ships) 645'x104'x32', 33 000 tons approx. at deep load.
Queen Elizabeth
Warspite
Valiant
^Barham
^Malaya
The former 3 received significant reconstructions in the early 1930s, including block superstructures and revised armament. The latter are currently undergoing refit to match their sisters.
Revenge Class (1916) (5 ships) 625'x90'x33.7', 31 000 tons approx. at deep load.
xRevenge
Royal Sovereign
oRoyal Oak
Ramillies
Resolution
Slower, less capable, better protected, and cheaper than the "Queens", these ships were regarded as second-class and received little in the way of improvements after the Great War. Revenge damaged in a collision on exercises in 1932; never repaired after damage from subsequent grounding was discovered to be more extensive than previously thought.
N3 (Triumph) Class (1924) (2 ships) 820'x106'x32', 50 000 tons approx. at deep load.
Triumph
Swiftsure
Initially intended to be a class of 4 battleships named after the patron saints of the countries that form the United Kingdom, it was cut down to 2 due to budgetary constraints. Although slow, with only 56 000 shp from 2 shafts, they are currently the world's most heavily armed ships with a main battery of 9 Mark II BL 18-inch L/45 guns arranged in 3 triple turrets; and are among the world's best protected.
King George V Class (1937) (5 ships) 793'x105'x33.6', 45 000 tons approx. at deep load.
King George V
Prince of Wales
*Duke of York
*Lion
*Temeraire
Initially proposed with an armament of 10x14" guns, the design was revised to incorporate 9x16" guns in 3 triple turrets. These fast battleships are intended to sail at up to 28.25 knots and incorporate the latest advances in protection to date, having fully realized the lessons of Jutland
**Vanguard Class (1941) (1 ship) 955'x118'x32', 68 000 tons approx. at deep load.
Vanguard
Initially intended to be part of a 6-ship King George V class, Vanguard was instead split off to make use of spare 18" guns built for the never-completed members of the Triumph class. The design is essentially a modernized and scaled-up "KG5", and will carry the armament of the former at speeds greater than the latter. Design work is progressing, and the RN intends to have the keel laid by 1941
Battlecruisers:
Renown Class (1916) (2 ships) 794'x90'x31.9', 32 000 tons approx. at deep load.
Renown
Repulse
Britain's oldest battlecruisers; but still valuable members of the Fleet. Renown underwent modernization in 1936; Repulse scheduled to enter refit this year, but poor condition of HMS Hood will make postponement necessary
Admiral Class (1920) (1 ship) 860'x104'x32', 48 000 tons approx. at deep load (current); 911'x104'x33', 51 000 tons approx. at deep load (proposed)
^Hood
"The Mighty 'Ud" is the only battlecruiser of her kind, the world's largest warship at the time of her commissioning. After Jutland, her design was revised numerous times, but never fully rectified her issues. Still, with her high speed, long, lean lines and powerful armament, she has carried the White Ensign and Union Jack around the world.
In July of 1939, she finally entered drydock for a major reconstruction. Her deck armor is to be strengthened, anti-flash measures and improved protection for her 4" magazines and a block superstructure are to be added. Her 2 funnels will be trunked into 1, and reboilering and replacement of her turbines will take place; additional octuple "pom-pom" mounts to be added abaft her new funnel. To reduce weight, her torpedoes and their directors will be removed. To increase freeboard and solve the longstanding problems of her being a wet ship, she will be fitted with a higher bow and her stern will be lengthened to increase buoyancy.
G3 (Nelson) Class (1925) (2 ships) 856'x106'x35.8', 54 000 tons approx. at deep load.
Nelson
Rodney
Related to the development of the Triumph-class, these ships were also intended to be a class of 4, cut down to 2 due to budgetary constraints. Faster., with 4 shafts and 160 000 shp, they carry a lighter armament then their cousins, but heavy nonetheless, with 9 16" guns in 3 triple turrets.
Carriers:
As in OTL, except 2 incomplete Admirals (Anson, Howe) were converted to carriers instead of being scrapped.
Imperial Japanese Navy (Japan)
Battleships:
Fuso Class (1914) (2 ships) 665'x94'x28', 29 000 tons approx. at standard load.
xFuso
xYamashiro
Scrapped 1922 per Treaty
Ise Class (1916) (2 ships) 683'x94'x29.4', 31 000 tons approx. at standard load.
Ise
Hyuga
Converted to carriers to prevent scrapping
Nagato Class (1918) (2 ships) 738'x113'x31.2', 38 000 tons approx. at standard load.
Nagato
Mutsu
The foundation pillars of Japan's modern battle fleet
Tosa Class (1922) (1 ship) 790'x115'x32', 45 000 tons approx. at standard load.
Tosa
Much like an enlarged Nagato with an extra turret abaft the superstructure. The second ship was converted to a carrier part way through construction as more advanced battleship designs came available- the revolutionary Kii
Kii Class (1925) (1 ship) 860'x116'x33', 52 000 tons approx. at standard load.
Kii
HIJMS Kii represents the fusion of the battlecruiser and battleship concepts in the IJN. Fast as a battlecruiser and powerful as a battleship, it was nonetheless quickly eclipsed by the even larger Yamatos. One was built, as it was not yet known whether reliable 18" guns would be available for the Yamatos.
Yamato (Number 13) Class (1927-9) (2 ships) 950'x118'x33', 55 000 tons approx. at standard load.
Yamato
^Musashi
Yamato and Musashi were the most advanced ships in the world when they were launched. 4 were planned, but their huge costs allowed only 2 to be built. Armed with 8 18.1" guns and with a speed of some 31 knots, they are the most heavily armed fast battleships in the world. Musahsi is currently refitting; Yamato having completed hers earlier this year. Reboilered, their pagoda masts made even taller, casemated secondaries replaced with turreted secondaries, torpedo bulges added; sterns lengthened 50' to improve freeboard and fineness to offset weight and beam increase.
Shinano (Yamato) Class (1941 estimated) (2-5? ships) 862'x127x34', 72 000 tons approx. at full load
*Shinano
** Unknown Hull
Little is yet known about these super battleships to be undergoing construction under top secrecy in Japan. Should these initial speculations as to their dimensions and capabilities prove true, they will be the most powerful ships ever launched, exceeding even the Yamatos.
Battlecruisers:
Kongo Class (1913) (4 ships) 728'x101'x28', 32 000 tons approx. at standard load.
Kongo
Hiei
Kirishima
Haruna
Japan's oldest battlecruisers, recently re-rated as fast battleships. They remain capable and versatile.
Amagi Class (1923) (1 ship) 866'x115'x31', 47 000 tons approx. at standard load.
xAmagi
Akagi
Takao (converted to carrier)
Amagi was damaged so badly during an earthquake she could not be completed and her remains scrapped; Takao converted to carrier during construction, leaving only Akagi in her class. Essentially a lengthened Tosa, she is much faster and her armor only one inch thinner. Re-rated fast battleship during her 1937 refit, during which her pagoda mast was increased in height, additional AA and directors added, and stern lengthened 40'.
United States of America (United States Navy)
To keep length manageable, same as OTL except:
3 Lexington class battlecruisers completed as such; the other 2 as carriers. Commissioned 1924-6
2 North Carolinas launched 1936
2 South Dakotas 1937-8
6 Iowas laid down starting 1938, the last completed in 1943
5 Montanas ordered, 3 laid down starting 1940, 2 completed 1944
Nazi Germany / Soviet Union
I'm not even sure you could build H-39 or Sovetsky Soyouz classes even taking as many liberties as I have.
Perhaps, 2 H-39s could have been built, Hindenburg and Friedrich der Grosse, as shorter, wider Bismarcks with six 42cm guns in 3 turrets and all-diesel propulsion, accepting a lower top speed. Hitler could also browbeat Raeder and Goering enough to make Graf Zeppelin sail as well.
France/Italy
With the state of industry and economy, not sure much more could have been built. Maybe some more Surcouf cruiser-submarines for France, or a bigger one with a 280mm+ gun
To all- do you think a scenario such as this would have impacted the course of the war at all, or would all this glorious iron simply mean bigger war graves, sent to the bottom by torpedoes and bombs?
Last edited: