WI A Communist Netherlands

In our TL Pieter Jelles Troelstra proclaimed communist revolution in november of 1918. this attempt failed due to lack of support and a well organized contra revolutionary movement. What if Troelstra's Mistake wasn't a mistake. A communist state was something witch was never done untill then (Russia was in civil war). Would the Socialist state survive or would the Allied or the Germans invade (yes both sides are worn down by the war but the Dutch army wasn't much in the first place and perhaps a civil war started like the Russian one)?

For everybody how has noticed, yes I am pretty new:D.
 
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Wolfpaw

Banned
Would the Socialist state survive or would the Allied or the Germans invade (yes both sides are worn down by the war but the Dutch arm wasn't much in the first place and perhaps a civil war started like the Russian one)?
The bolded bit. The Allies were willing to send troops all the way to Russia to crush communism; they won't think twice about crushing a Red insurrection on their very doorstep. If somehow the Reds survive their curbstomping well enough to launch a "civil war," the affair will be nasty, brutish, and short. It will be especially bloody if the Dutch Communists commit regicide, which no country, not even France, will take well.

Now the post-revolutionary Netherlands will be interesting. The monarchy is likely to be restored, but we may see something like an authoritarian dictatorship installed that's propped up by Anglo-French bayonets. This will likely cause the Dutch to very much resent their western neighbors and their puppet government in Amsterdam. I could certainly see a radicalization of Dutch society developing into a three-way struggle between Leftists, monarchists, and ultranationalists/fascists.

If the Dutch tinderbox goes off before WWII, this creates an interesting situation since the Western response will likely be confused at best, though the Germans may stoke the fires of Dutch ultranationalism and provide aid to the right-wingers while the Anglo-French supply the monarchists. Maybe the USSR even manages to slip supplies to the Leftists. Perhaps the conflagration spreads to Belgium with the Flemish populace rising up in support of the Dutch ultranationalists and push for a union between the Netherlands and Flanders.

Think about it; a mini Spanish Civil War in the Low Countries during the interwar period. Now there's a TL I would read. ;)
 
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If the Dutch tinderbox goes off before WWII, this creates an interesting situation since the Western response will likely be confused at best, though the Germans may stoke the fires of Dutch ultranationalism and provide aid to the right-wingers while the Anglo-French supply the monarchists. Maybe the USSR even manages to slip supplies to the Leftists. Perhaps the conflagration spreads to Belgium with the Flemish populace rising up in support of the Dutch ultranationalists and agitating for a union between the Netherlands and Flanders.

YAY! the death of Belgium! :D
 
If I had a nickel for every time I heard that . . . :rolleyes:


;)

That is true.. and an Benelux in Insurection in the inmediate Dark Alley will make the Butterflies swing high(specially with certain Bohemian Corporal), and will be in some way.. Original.
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
The only way I see a Dutch revolution being succesful is if the various German revolutions in 1918 somehow had been succesful, and the Dutch revolutionaries would thus enjoy German support. But to get the German revolutions to succeed you'd probably need either ASB, or a even more severely beaten Germany in WW1.

On the other hand if German had fallen for a revolution earlier in 1918, and then the Dutch in late 1918, you can bet there will be attempts in Belgium, France and Italy too. Western Europe would become an important battleground between Communism and Capitalism.

Another question is what would happen to the Dutch colonial empire if the Netherlands goes Commie. I guess the Entente would seize it.
 
i like the ideas that come in, but there are some things i don't think seem realistic.
let's start with the revolution, i think there are three senario's where in a succesfull communist revolution is realistic.

1) The German communists also sense the time is right for a revolution and within days the rebellion storms the Reichstag. Unwilling to fight there own people the army sides with the Revolution and the German Socialist Republiek is proclaimed giving the Netherlands a strong ally. Perhaps a leftist revolt in France would happen (is nice, but it isn't really important).

2) Communists around Europe begin to make there move, following the Dutch example. However they don't get the swift take-over they hoped for in most cases. The German Revolution starts a terrible civil war witch takes over a year to supress. In France the workers take Paris and kill the Poincaré (the president) and some generals (here a French revolt is important). Troops who had recently been fighting foreigners where sent to murder there own people (I think the Great War ended practicly or a ceasefire was declared by both parties) and they deserted an masse, the British have to be shiped in (and brought in from the former western front)to crush the Revolution, leaving Frances honour shattered and more importantly there is a lot of civil unrest. The UK have had there share of the war. Putting down one rebellion is enough for the Brits, they leave the German civil war to the Germans (let's say the country is so divided that no side wins until 1922 leaving the lands broken and the economy destroyed) and why would they invade a country (even as small as the Netherlands) when the troops have fought four years of the bloodiest war in history only to shoot at former allies when it is over. About America we doen't have to worry either they went isonalist the minute the war ended. This leaves the door open for a possible annexasion of Flanders (perhaps even most wallone too).

3) Thanks to Wolfpaw for this idea. With the war over, the French deside they don't want a socialist state so close there home country and they invade (perhaps with British support or even American (I don't thinks so but it's an option)). What they think would be a quick invasion, done by the book, turns out to be a horrible small urban copy of the Great War. Leaving Dutch streets flooded with the blood of reactionary French troops. Here we have another option to gain (parts of) Flanders, if France attacks they will move over Belgium and the Belgium goverment also send troops to help the invasion in the hope of gaining Limburg or Zeeuws-Flanders or both. If Belgium supported the invasion why won't take the Dutch the fight to Belgium?
 
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Now an other idea : the civil war option. If the Revolution had more trouble than in the other ideas, say a part of the army remaining loyal to the goverment or the nationalists and the confessional parties. The Catholic or Protastant Faith were no big fans of the socialists, so there's a good chance that in the Catholic South a contra-revolution started. The nationalists on the other hand are no real problem, unless they somehow manage to gain support of the army, let's say a general (perhaps Cornelis Snijders) with a lot of charisma claimes that it is preferable to have every man, woman or child who follows his command becomming a martyr then to see a red opression of the Dutch people. It is very possible that the Catholics and the nationalists join forces to crush the communists, but that would likely be the end of a Socialist Netherlands (what this thread is about, but a very good idea for an other one:D). Even if the natonalists stay on there on side the Catholics will probable get support from France (if not fighting a red revolution themselves), Britain or Belgium, any way I think the Revolution is doomed if it goes that way.:eek:
 
Let's talk about the colonies.

maybe, though maybe the Brits would hold an empire-in-exile up in the East-Indies, Wilhelmina walking the streets of Jakarta is a cool idea....

Yeah that´s a pretty nice idea:cool:. I think it´s also the most likely to happen (if one of the first three options happens). The Royal family will flee (with most of the upper and middle class) when they find out that the Revolution can´t be stoped. The Dutch East Indies were the most important colony so that would be theire destination. This would likely lead to constitunial reforms. The United Netherlands would become a federal state with a parlement in Jakarta (Indonisia), Paramaribo (Surinam) and one in Willemstad (the Netherlands Antilles), with a Federal parlement in Jakarta.
 
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