WI: A Communist Besides Mao

Specifically, okay, Mao was a rather horrible administrator, to say the least. But, wasn't too bad of a gurriella fighter, or charismatic leader, so did do well before Communist China actually won in a way.

With that in mind, I have an... interesting what if scenario. What if a different Communist came to head the Communists in China? Someone who was a competent administrator, if not an outright genius in that regard. Someone who could be pragmatic, and wasn't a pure idealist like Stalin. Is there someone like this among the Chinese Communists? Someone who could head the state if Mao died in say... 1949?
 

RousseauX

Donor
If it's a single leader: probably Zhou Enlai

But if Mao dies you might end up with a triumvirate or group-rule like the USSR after the death after Stalin. Liu Shaoqi would be big in that.
 
As said above Mao was an excellent guerilla commander but terrible at governing. The CPC had no shortage of competent administrators like Zhou, Liu and Deng who could have transformed China much earlier if they'd had the chance and avoiding the insanity of the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution would have saved millions.

I can remember reading something on here once, "If Mao had died in 1956 he'd be remembered as the greatest leader in China's history. If Mao had died in 1966 he'd be remembered as a flawed man who made mistakes but still great. But alas, Mao died in 1976..."
 
What if he had died in 1950? But also, glad to know there are good administrators in the party to replace him.
 
There were quite a few people who could've replaced Mao, and quite a few ways to get rid of him. His rise to power was very shaky as it is. Wang Ming,Zhou Enlai, Lin Biao, and others come to mind...

I wonder, however, if any other leader would've had the resolve that Mao did to enact the most extreme of strategies that led the CCP to survive the war, grow exponentially during the war, and then knock out the battle-hardened KMT. It is possible, for instance, that without Mao the Chinese Communists may have listened to Stalin's orders and used much more of their energy to fight the Japanese, detracting from their covert expansion and strengthening.
 
There were quite a few people who could've replaced Mao, and quite a few ways to get rid of him. His rise to power was very shaky as it is. Wang Ming,Zhou Enlai, Lin Biao, and others come to mind...

I wonder, however, if any other leader would've had the resolve that Mao did to enact the most extreme of strategies that led the CCP to survive the war, grow exponentially during the war, and then knock out the battle-hardened KMT. It is possible, for instance, that without Mao the Chinese Communists may have listened to Stalin's orders and used much more of their energy to fight the Japanese, detracting from their covert expansion and strengthening.

Mind you, I think after the final victory, and Mao effectively ruling then, specially...

Maybe aghast of his 'incompetence' or such, a cabal could rise one day...
 
Mind you, I think after the final victory, and Mao effectively ruling then, specially...

Maybe aghast of his 'incompetence' or such, a cabal could rise one day...
Oh, well in that case, it's slightly more difficult. 1949 is a bad year to get rid of Mao because that's when he's at the height of his prestige and barring a heart attack or something, it is hard to imagine his own henchmen betraying him at such a time.

The earliest chance is during the Korean War. In OTL the war did not go badly enough for Mao's power to be threatened, but it could've easily been worse for the Chinese. Have the Chinese attack be repulsed near the Yalu, have Mao order the PLA to stand its ground, and then have the USAF strike targets in Manchuria or even Beijing. It doesn't have to be nuclear attacks, though the latter would certainly ensure Mao's removal from power. However, such a drastically different Korean war may not be what the OP is looking for...

The next point is the Great Leap Forward or just after it. At one Party meeting in the early sixties, an overwhelming majority of the party officials expressed their disagreement with the Chairman. Liu Shaoqi, after visiting his devastated hometown, did not let the commoners who insulted him for their starvation be punished. There was a lot of potential dissent against Mao, if only it could manifest. Perhaps an assassination attempt or an "accident" could remove the Chairman.

In 1971, Lin Biao and his family tried to escape the country after his son's attempt on Mao's life failed. As we know, their plane crashed in Mongolia and they all perished. But it shows that there were those who were willing to oppose Mao even to the point of killing him.
 
Sorry if this is a necro.

With that in mind, what if someone kill Mao in 1961? He'll be remembered as flawed, but not quite the monster of OTL. Additionally, surely the Communists had alternative ideas on what to do regarding economics, to say the least.
 
Sorry if this is a necro.

With that in mind, what if someone kill Mao in 1961? He'll be remembered as flawed, but not quite the monster of OTL. Additionally, surely the Communists had alternative ideas on what to do regarding economics, to say the least.
Read my post. If somebody killed Mao in '61, the reason would've been for causing the famine. After his death, there'll be supporters of Mao both in and outside the Party, and the anti-Mao elements of the CCP will have to publicize the "he starved 40 million people to death!" argument as much as possible to ensure their political well-being.

Later on, they might downplay Mao's role since he was after all the guy who led the party through the Yan'an years, but it's also likely that they'll fully denounce him and reveal the dirty tricks he used ever since 1927 while shifting the glory to other individuals like Zhou Enlai, Peng Dehuai, and and such. This view would even be more accurate than the OTL perception of Mao.
 
It's not clear whether Mao launched the Hundred Flowers Bloom campaign in order to identify opponents to crack down, but it's plausible that any potential rivals would use it to wage a propaganda war and grab influence from him. The best (for China) scenario would be Deng and Zhou warning against excessive dogma in implementing socialism, leading to a faster Sino Soviet Split, better relations with the west, and earlier economic reforms (and no GLF). The worst was, well, OTL.
 
Read my post. If somebody killed Mao in '61, the reason would've been for causing the famine. After his death, there'll be supporters of Mao both in and outside the Party, and the anti-Mao elements of the CCP will have to publicize the "he starved 40 million people to death!" argument as much as possible to ensure their political well-being.

Later on, they might downplay Mao's role since he was after all the guy who led the party through the Yan'an years, but it's also likely that they'll fully denounce him and reveal the dirty tricks he used ever since 1927 while shifting the glory to other individuals like Zhou Enlai, Peng Dehuai, and and such. This view would even be more accurate than the OTL perception of Mao.

Sorry, didn't realize some things from it.

But okay, how would these individuals have reformed China? What would it have been transformed into? What it was in OTL, just earlier? Or something completely different?
 
For Zhou Enlai, the answer is no. From what I read, he always wanted to be second in command, never first.
 
It's not clear whether Mao launched the Hundred Flowers Bloom campaign in order to identify opponents to crack down, but it's plausible that any potential rivals would use it to wage a propaganda war and grab influence from him. The best (for China) scenario would be Deng and Zhou warning against excessive dogma in implementing socialism, leading to a faster Sino Soviet Split, better relations with the west, and earlier economic reforms (and no GLF). The worst was, well, OTL.

According to a certain book I read recently, Mao said himself that it was "not a plot in the dark, but a stratagem in the open", in response to being criticized for turning on the very people he had encouraged to speak up.

But yeah, Deng Xiaoping was a valid candidate for quite a while as an economic reformer, and Mao had had a lot of capable people working for him.

My guess is that China would try to stick with more centralized economics for a longer time, but gradually get more and more capitalistic. There will still be a split with the Soviets, but nothing stupid like the border clashes of OTL would happen, so relations would gradually improve over time. China would probably be better off now, having started development earlier and without Mao's insanity.
 
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