WI 85-100 Irish Nationalists At Westminister To This Day?

I'm presuming had Ireland achieved home rule as it was very close to achieving before WW1, that Irish representation at Westminister would still have been maintained as Ireland would be still within the Union, as it has been maintained for Scotland, Wales and N. Ireland, despite them having home rule parliaments of their own effectively. So what effect would over 80 Irish MPS with a nationalist bent have on British politics? I reckon the labour party in Ireland would have the prominence it has traditionally had in Scotland eventually and it would outshine out and out nationalists or the other alternative would be the balance of power would be virtually always held by those nationalists and these islands at times could become virtually ungovernable from parliament's perspective.
 
A Home Rule Ireland would still have MPs at Westminster - Home Rule did not involve the complete separation of Ireland from the UK. However the number of MPs it sent to Parliament would be drastically reduced.
 
ok more details.

the Home Rule bill of 1914 did pass, however the out brake of WWI put implementing of the law off, support for an out and out Republic just wasn't there in 1914, the famous Easter Rising also had very very little support, what really set off the Sinn Féin election victory was anger over the conscription of the Irish in 1918 (there was nothing gained by conscription as the Irish volunteered at such high rates any ways) the war was badly managed by the Brits, by the time peace talks started the IRA was on the ropes (the IRA's leader, Michael Collins, said they only had about enough bullets for a week of fighting at the end) many believed that the Anglo-Irish Treaty was a ploy by the British who believed the Irish would say no to it and thus the Brits would have a reason to impose Martial law on Irish, the Treaty nearly did fail (passed the Irish by 7 votes or so) even after it passed about half the IRA lead by Éamon de Valera said they'd keep fighting, they took parts of Dublin (the Four Courts) and else where in Ireland, there was a months long stand off as the Free State Government lead by Collins was unwilling to start a civil war and the IRA under de Valera was unwilling to back down, it all came to a head because of Collins' "Northern offensive" where the IRA Belfast Brigade lunched attacks in the North during may 1922 under Collins' orders, Collins also had the IRA kill Field Marshal Sir Henry Hughes Wilson in London itself, Winston Churchill than Secretary of State for the Colonies, thought the London hit was de Valera and the anti-Treaty boys, he told Collins to take them out, or the Brits would.

any ways there are lots of chances for the Irish to fail to win themselves a country and in those cases I could see a large number of abstentionist Sinn Féin members, though 90 years is a long time to hang on to something, and give up your right to a say in government.
 
So presuming there's no Easter Rising, and James Conolly goes on to form some sort of Labour party, and that ends up uniting with the UK Labour Party, could we get PM Conolly? :D
 
So presuming there's no Easter Rising, and James Conolly goes on to form some sort of Labour party, and that ends up uniting with the UK Labour Party, could we get PM Conolly? :D

I think that this would really need to assume that there wasn't an Easter rising.
 
As Black Angel, one possible way of keeping Ireland as a dominion would be avoiding the war, with no war it's likely there wouldn't have been an Easter rising.

even if there was an Easter rising it doesn't mean much, while Republicans like to talk up the rising but at the time there wasn't much support for them, its only after the British government freaks out and starts executing their leaders do they get turned into romantic heros.
 
As Black Angel, one possible way of keeping Ireland as a dominion would be avoiding the war, with no war it's likely there wouldn't have been an Easter rising.

So might this also avoid the Civil war of OTL? Or could there still be a violent uprising of some sort?
 
Under the still completely in the UK dispensation, how would Irish politics have turned out? What impact on the very governability of these islands?
 
TBH with 85 plus of the Republic's clown politicians floating around Westminister acting the maggot, the British establishment might very very unusually for them conceed anything to us eventually!
 
Though it's difficult to invisage no home rule or no partition - what if?

ok here goes, the IRA forces a ceasefire in July 1921, this is largely because the war is very very unpopular, the Brits hope to trick the Irish in rejecting the peace so the UK can have public opinion on there side, Michael Collins comes back with the Treaty, de Valera leads the Dáil Éireann to turn it down in a close vote, Collins rails against them on the floor before storming out, much of the IRA leaves with him. In the House of Commons Lloyd George and Churchill all but Crow about how the Republicans won't "Give an Inch to save a gallon of Blood", British news papers fill with loyalist from the South calling the IRA communists who won't stop till all rivals and the Catholic Church is wiped from Ireland, Northern loyalist paint a bleak picture of future pogroms against any non-Catholic in the land. British and world opinion turns against de Valera and the Anti-Treaty IRA, most of its veterans and officers have left fallowing Collins' lead, Collins himself writes tracks in local papers against the Anti-Treaty forces (though they're never pro-British) de Valera's IRA is full of young men that joined after the ceasefire to be part of something (as happened in the RL Civil War) they have few leaders and fewer arms and the full might of the British army lands on them with two feet, they are soon forced back into Cork and crushed like bugs, their leaders are shot. Collins takes major Pro-Treaty persons and reforms Sinn Féin as a protest movement aimed at ending martial law, which they manage in 1925, the Northern Unionists (and key Anglo-Irish Landlords in the South) block HomeRule and Sinn Féin gets elected to a majority of seats (to block them from forming a new Dáil Éireann a law was passed that MPs must be in London if the Parliament was leading to a number of Sinn Féin MPs getting dragged at gun point to London)
 

Thande

Donor
I actually think Home Rule of some kind was pretty inevitable, just because that many Irish Nationalists at Westminster kept gumming up the government in the late 19th century by preventing anyone from getting a majority, and that would only get worse as politics got more partisan and party-driven and Labour came along to sharpen the divide.
 

Falkenburg

Monthly Donor
Possibilities

A more far-sighted British Government response, perhaps shaped by someone with an understanding of Irish history, ensures that the Rebels are imprisoned and vilified as "Trench Dodging Anarchists" rather than martyred for the cause of Revolutionary Nationalism.

Government propaganda focuses on the sacrifices made by 'Ordinary Decent Irishmen' on the Western Front, further blackening the cause of Rebellion.

Constitutional Nationalism is persuaded of the danger such extremism poses to their vision of Home Rule and plays its' part in isolating Sinn Fein et al.

An uneasy peace lasts until the end of the Great War, when Home Rule is enacted, with authority over Foreign Affairs remaining as part of Westminsters' remit.

In exchange, Irish MPs, although reduced in number, continue to be returned to Westminster where by parliamentary convention they abstain on domestic matters pertaining to Great Britain.

This works reasonably well in practice if inelegant in conception. The Irish Parliamentary Party continues to dominate Irish returns, mirroring the Liberals in Great Britain (Gradually losing ground to Irish Labour Party).

Dominion status and the shared sacrifices of the Western Front combined with the prestige associated with being the economic powerhouse of the new Dominion (Not to mention frequent Royal Visits in support of Dominion Status) weds the pragmatic 'Unionist' community to the new state.

Politically, Irish Westminster MPs would surely create a fair amount of mischief in the areas left open to them (Foreign & Commonwealth Affairs).

Regards,

Falkenburg
 
It may have been an unstable situation with the more moderate sinn feiners forming an party supporting independence and eventually winning a majority.

I doubt that the Labour Party would be the main party in Ireland as it was and to some extent is a largely agricultural country unlike Scotland where the bulk of the population lives in the industrial central lowlands and there were mines, shipyards and steel mills. Depending on whether the North East had an opt out there might be labour support in Belfast and parts of what is now Northern Ireland and some support in Dublin and Cork but that's probably it as it is Labour's support relies on STV in Ireland.

Eventually a less moderate Irish Nationalist party would be winning seats in the Dublin parliament possibly lead by De Valera and it would probably get a majority but a lot of trouble might have been avoided including the civil war
 
A more far-sighted British Government response, perhaps shaped by someone with an understanding of Irish history, ensures that the Rebels are imprisoned and vilified as "Trench Dodging Anarchists" rather than martyred for the cause of Revolutionary Nationalism.

Government propaganda focuses on the sacrifices made by 'Ordinary Decent Irishmen' on the Western Front, further blackening the cause of Rebellion.

Constitutional Nationalism is persuaded of the danger such extremism poses to their vision of Home Rule and plays its' part in isolating Sinn Fein et al.

An uneasy peace lasts until the end of the Great War, when Home Rule is enacted, with authority over Foreign Affairs remaining as part of Westminsters' remit.

In exchange, Irish MPs, although reduced in number, continue to be returned to Westminster where by parliamentary convention they abstain on domestic matters pertaining to Great Britain.

This works reasonably well in practice if inelegant in conception. The Irish Parliamentary Party continues to dominate Irish returns, mirroring the Liberals in Great Britain (Gradually losing ground to Irish Labour Party).

Dominion status and the shared sacrifices of the Western Front combined with the prestige associated with being the economic powerhouse of the new Dominion (Not to mention frequent Royal Visits in support of Dominion Status) weds the pragmatic 'Unionist' community to the new state.

Politically, Irish Westminster MPs would surely create a fair amount of mischief in the areas left open to them (Foreign & Commonwealth Affairs).

Regards,

Falkenburg

The dominions aren't represented at Westminister. "Dominion" seems the wrong term here unless the connoation changes drastically in your timeline.
 
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