WI: 19th Century Swedish Empire

What if Sweden regained Great Power Status in the 19th Century?

I'm thinking France partitions Prussia and gives Sweden Pomerania. Sweden trades Pomerania to Denmark for the Crown of Norway. The Crown of Norway here including Iceland, Greenland, and the Faroes.

Sweden avoids peeving Napoleon as well, sticks with the continental system, and thus doesn't lose Finland.

Later, holding much of OTL constant, Sweden involves itself in the eventual defeat of Napoleon and thus is able to make gains at Vienna. West Prussia might work, as in Napoleon's theorized Prussian partition Russia was to get East Prussia and West Prussia was to go to Warsaw. I imagine it'd be referred to as Swedish Pomerelia.
 
I'm thinking France partitions Prussia and gives Sweden Pomerania. Sweden trades Pomerania to Denmark for the Crown of Norway. The Crown of Norway here including Iceland, Greenland, and the Faroes.
Not. Going. To. Happen.

Denmark would never willingly trade Norway, Denmark's brother nation which had been under the Danish crown for 400 years, for some useless German province. The size of the German population in Denmark (Holstein) at this time was already a major issue, why would the Danish king want more German subjects - and why would he trade away his loyal Norwegian subjects for these useless - even harmful - Germans in Pomerania?
 
Not. Going. To. Happen.

Denmark would never willingly trade Norway, Denmark's brother nation which had been under the Danish crown for 400 years, for some useless German province. The size of the German population in Denmark (Holstein) at this time was already a major issue, why would the Danish king want more German subjects - and why would he trade away his loyal Norwegian subjects for these useless - even harmful - Germans in Pomerania?

Okay let me clarify.

Sweden seizes Norway as per OTL. Here, instead of handing over itty bitty Swedish Pomerania (which Denmark proceeded to give to Prussia in exchange for Lubeck) they get all of Pomerania. Sweden meanwhile gets all of the crown of Norway.
 
I think by the 19th Century, it was going to be too late for Sweden to regain that status, but they could go into the 19th Century as a great power if the outcome of the Great Northern War had been different. Charles XII had a chance to end the war earlier shortly after his victory at Narva, but he was dead set on vanquishing all his enemies and that cost him the war. He also had his chance to weigh in on the concurrent War of the Spanish Succession, so if Sweden could have ended up on the winning side, they may have been able to get concessions to further consolidate their strength in the Baltic.
 
How about this.

Sweden gets Pomerania in the partition of Prussia post-Tilsit. There later is no Finnish War and Sweden seizes Norway from Denmark due to the latter being a French ally. Norway here includes Iceland, Greenland, and the Faroes.

At Vienna, Sweden gains West Prussia (Pomerelia).

Down the line, Sweden gains Karelia and Kola from Russia as well (or perhaps gets those lands at Vienna somehow).

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Seems difficult. Sweden had has almost a hundred years of internal political turmoil, it's deeply corrupt, with a starving population and feeble economy. The professional Carolean army is gone and what's left is outdated.

We're gonna need a PoD early after the great northern war to reverse this. A more competent king leading to a earlier gustavian restoration of power could be a start, it removes a lot of ways foreign influence would affect Sweden atleast.

Any gains Sweden make on Prussian expense are probably moot btw unless Napoleon wins, but Sweden on old Nappe's side doesn't necessarily mean this.

As for this potential Empire... well Norway will still be highly autonomous, it might actually gain independence sooner since Sweden will have enough trouble keeping down German and maybe even Finnish nationalists.

I do think Sweden could have remained a european power post-great northern war, but I also think the Napoleonic wars are too late a PoD.
 
Okay let me clarify.

Sweden seizes Norway as per OTL. Here, instead of handing over itty bitty Swedish Pomerania (which Denmark proceeded to give to Prussia in exchange for Lubeck) they get all of Pomerania. Sweden meanwhile gets all of the crown of Norway.
But Sweden never did manage to seize Norway. Norway was handed over to Sweden after the Sixth Coalition defeated Denmark - something which Sweden played a very little part in. Norway refused to submit to Swedish rule, and declared independence. After a short war the two countries negotiated a peace, in which Norway and Sweden formed a union with the same king, but where Norway retained independence over domestic affairs. Norway was never Swedish.

Sweden would never be able to seize Norway from Denmark. The country is too mountainous and Sweden's military was too weak by the 19th century.

Besides, Norway was handed over to Sweden because Sweden had been on the coalition's side and Denmark had been on Napoleon's side. If Sweden had been on Napoleon's side, then they wouldn't have got anything - not Norway and certainly not Pomerania, which belonged to Prussia - a sworn enemy of Napoleon.

And why on Earth would Russia give Sweden Karelia? Russia and Sweden are ancient rivals. A strong Sweden would be again Russia's interests, and why should the Russians - the ultimate victors of the Napoleonic Wars - give away territory to a former enemy and ally of Napoleon, after contributing the most to the defeat of the French Empire? It makes no sense.
 
Norway or Prussia; pick one. Denmark was an ally of Napoleon, so if Sweden wants to be allowed to partake in Tilst than they're going to avoid whacking Coppenhagan over the head.
 
Seems difficult. Sweden had has almost a hundred years of internal political turmoil, it's deeply corrupt, with a starving population and feeble economy. The professional Carolean army is gone and what's left is outdated.

We're gonna need a PoD early after the great northern war to reverse this. A more competent king leading to a earlier gustavian restoration of power could be a start, it removes a lot of ways foreign influence would affect Sweden atleast.

Any gains Sweden make on Prussian expense are probably moot btw unless Napoleon wins, but Sweden on old Nappe's side doesn't necessarily mean this.

As for this potential Empire... well Norway will still be highly autonomous, it might actually gain independence sooner since Sweden will have enough trouble keeping down German and maybe even Finnish nationalists.

I do think Sweden could have remained a european power post-great northern war, but I also think the Napoleonic wars are too late a PoD.

I agree, and I actually think Sweden needs to end the Great Northern War much sooner with treaties with Russia and Poland-Lithuania shortly after the Battle of Narva. Furthermore, I think Sweden needs to further prevent Russia from ever gaining that window on the Baltic that Peter the Great went to war with Sweden over. Sweden may never have had the money or resources at the time to build their own version of St. Petersburg (though they did have Nyen), but they just need to keep Russia out of the Baltic in order to maintain their great power status.

If Sweden can do that, if Charles can avoid losing his army later on and if they can actually build the numbers back up, Sweden could get a chance to weigh in on the War of the Spanish Succession when it would best suit them. I anticipate that at the point France is at it's lowest ebb, Sweden would join the Grand Alliance and secure their own gains and territories they gain from Denmark-Norway, Poland-Lithuania, and Russia, along with also securing the lands that were coveted by Hanover and Prussia. It would be a backstab of France, since the French got them a lot of lost territory back in a previous war, but Sweden needs time to fully rebuild their forces, especially since Russia would be looking for another crack at the Baltic. The pragmatic decision is to go against the French here.

So France here likely suffers a clearer defeat, but with Prussia involved in the treaty, I don't think there's any way they would allow Sweden to gain any more of Pomerania than they already have. Sweden and Prussia had warred over Pomerania before, seeing Sweden hand over parts of Swedish Pomerania. Sweden probably takes the rest of Courland, creating another border between themselves and Prussia, and here's where things become interesting.

Sweden and Prussia become THE rivalry in the Baltic and in any future wars involving Great Britain, France, and the HRE, I see Sweden and Prussia usually being opposed to each other, vying for influence over the other states in the Baltic, while both also worrying about a resurgent, ambitious Russia which would probably make further gains against the Ottomans if Sweden can continue to keep them away from the Baltic. Nyen would become their bulwark against Russia, as well as a network of defenses from Nyen to Lake Ladoga.

However, they would need to be careful about which battles they choose to fight and which alliances they need to make. Sweden is at a manpower disadvantage to both Prussia and Russia and will remain so for the whole 18th Century, even with their holdings in Finland, Ingria, Estonia, Latvia, Livonia, Courland, Swedish Pomerania, and Swedish Bremen-Verden. So I do see a Swedish-Habsburg alliance for sure, France likely making alliances with Prussia and Russia, with Great Britain probably throwing in with the Habsburgs as well, despite Sweden holding territory that the Hanoverian rulers of Great Britain wants.

But this is just the most pragmatic timeline, one forged by pragmatic, patient, defensive decisions. The young Charles XII wasn't one for pragmatism, but if he can be reined just a little by his advisors and develop into a more patient, wiser king, perhaps Sweden could have remained a Great Power, possibly even one with colonial ambitions if they can make their way to the North Sea.
 
I think Sweden has a better chance of setting up a colonial empire in Africa and Asia instead of one in Europe by the 19th century
 
If Sweden makes any further gains after the revised ending of the Great Northern War, it would likely only come at the expense of second-rate powers at that time like Denmark-Norway and Poland-Lithuania, unless they find themselves on the winning side of one of the numerous pan-European wars that broke out so often in the 18th Century. But I firmly believe there is next to no chance Sweden can maintain it's empire and status as a great power without winning the GNW and without keeping the Russians out of the Baltic. If Sweden could somehow manage to get itself a North Sea port, then they could be in some serious business, but most of their European strategy would be to maintain what they have and find a way to keep Prussia or Russia from getting a leg up on them.
 
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