WI: 1980s Backlash Runs D&D and Fantasy Out of Business

[CECBC]

I could see it happening with an 80's Columbine or Sandy Hook style massacre that had an undeniable link to the game, like the kids who did the killings were avid players who were well-known in the D&D community and blamed the game during the trial for influencing them to kill.

That would very likely kill the company. Stores would drop their products like mad and parents all around the world would burn their kids games out of fear. It'd also vindicate the Satanic Panic folks who would feel emboldened to go after other companies and products.

 

[MattII]

And it's still not going to do much outside of the USA, so a Commonwealth publisher is found, and D&D and other stuff is right there, waiting for the Fantasy Prohibition period to pass.

 

[Cryhavoc101]

It cannot be understated just how bad the whole occult and satanist moral panic in the 1980s was, and how there was a special focus on Dungeons & Dragons as a moral scapegoat. It was not just a matter of the religious moralists condemning the property as evil. There was a Middle America backlash, fueled by stories that teenagers were committing suicide or going crazy, that people were unable to distinguish between reality and fantasy, and that roleplayers were caught in a web of occultism, evil, murder and suicide and so forth. And that lingered into any roleplaying game. And it lingered into anything in the Fantasy genre. There were preachers condemning He-Man.

The question becomes, what if this became such that it legitimately ran TSR out of business, and sufficiently tainted the whole of the Fantasy genre?

In the UK it was not as bad but I do recall seeing the moralistic types having a pop at the genre and gamers simply responding with answers along the lines of 'why don't you instead address the problem of rampant football hooliganism (soccer if your in the US) and violence which is a million times worse than the most exaggerated case in DnD'

However such a backlash I think would only encourage the type of person who played the game to want to play it more IMO!

 

[Clandango]

I look forward to seeing the amount of rebranded games, involving hunting down demons, cultists, murderers, etc. And while it may have been mentioned here before, didn't some of the early game books have Devils and satanic looking stuff on the covers? Might have just been guides about the demons of course or a way to attract attention among black book covers. While you can't judge a book by its covers, people usually can get an inkling of what the publisher wants people to think about them.

 

[Osakadave]

I look forward to seeing the amount of rebranded games, involving hunting down demons, cultists, murderers, etc. And while it may have been mentioned here before, didn't some of the early game books have Devils and satanic looking stuff on the covers? Might have just been guides about the demons of course or a way to attract attention among black book covers. While you can't judge a book by its covers, people usually can get an inkling of what the publisher wants people to think about them.

Nope, totally undemonic.

 

[marathag]

Nope, totally undemonic.

Note fighting the Demon, not worshiping it.

 

[overoceans]

Note fighting the Demon, not worshiping it.

True, but the demon is sort of the selling point of the imagery. The message is not "Play this game, and you will be a WIZARD fighting demons!!", but "Play this game, and you will be a wizard fighting DEMONS!!".

Plus, as I recall, you could actually play an evil character in DND. Weren't their cateogries like "Chaotic Good" and "Chaotic Evil" and "Rational Good" and "Rational Evil"? Not that I personally have a problem with any of that, but if you're someone who believes the devil walks the earth with cloven hooves, you might.

As for the gaming companies fleeing a Panic-stricken USA and setting up in the UK, it should be noted that, in OTL, certain aspects of the Panic did waft over to blessed Albion, specifically the ritual abuse allegations. Numerous people were tried and, in some cases, convicted of satanic abuse in England and Scotland. Dr. Jean La Fontaine wrote a report for the Department Of Health, debunking the allegations.

Plus, in an ATL where BADD has a hegemonic cultural influence in the USA, I would not neccessarily assume that the UK remains a bastion of enlightened tolerance.

 

[RossN]

Weren't their cateogries like "Chaotic Good" and "Chaotic Evil" and "Rational Good" and "Rational Evil"? Not that I personally have a problem with any of that, but if you're someone who believes the devil walks the earth with cloven hooves, you might.

Lawful Good, Neutral Good, Chaotic Good, Lawful Neutral, (True) Neutral, Chaotic Neutral, Lawful Evil, Neutral Evil, Chaotic Evil.

My copy of the AD&D 2d edtion Player's Handbook says that evil alignments are not prohibited for players but at the same time it is a lousy idea both because it runs counter to the spirit of the game ("The AD&D game is a game of heroic fantasy. What is heroic about being a villain?") and, in a less moralistic tone, because an evil character is going to be difficult to work in a group, especially if other people are playing the good guys.

 

[overoceans]

Thank you, RossN. I had forgotten the precise names.

Surprised to see that Evil characters were discouraged, since I seemed to recall all alignments being treated equally in the rules. But I only ever skimmed DND manuals for a few minutes at a time.

 

[RossN]

Thank you, RossN. I had forgotten the precise names.

Surprised to see that Evil characters were discouraged, since I seemed to recall all alignments being treated equally in the rules. But I only ever skimmed DND manuals for a few minutes at a time.

Granted the AD&D 2nd edition was first published in 1989 so it was after the BAD reaction but the current edition is fairly similar. My 5th edition Player's Handbook (published 2014) says: "In most games, evil adventurers cause problems in groups alongside others who don't share their interests and objectives. Generally, evil alignments are for villains and monsters."

Looking through my 2nd edition PHB again I see that of the 9 character classes more than half have alignment restrictions:

Paladin: Lawful Good only.
Ranger: Any Good.
Druid: (True) Neutral only.
Bard: Any Neutral.
Thief: Any except Lawful Good.

So straight away a 'pure' Evil focused party would lose out on three classes altogether, a 'pure' Neutral party loses two classes while a 'pure' Good focused party loses only one class - that Thief can still be Neutral Good or Chaotic Good after all.

 

[Osakadave]

Note fighting the Demon, not worshiping it.

You asked "...didn't some of the early game books have Devils and satanic looking stuff on the covers?"

 

[overoceans]

Granted the AD&D 2nd edition was first published in 1989 so it was after the BAD reaction but the current edition is fairly similar.

Ah, okay. When I browsed through those manuals, it was in the early 80s, 1983 at the very latest. So maybe they hadn't put in the helpful hints about avoiding evil characters.

 

[Osakadave]

Note that if we look at the second part of this - fantasy as a whole being taboo - there are going to be some serious effects.

No fantasy will also very likely bleed over into depressing the market for SF as well.

No fantasy means Conan the Barbarian, Schwarzenegger's breakthrough film, doesn't get made, nor do Conan the Destroyer and Red Sonja. Less popular SF means Terminator is less likely to be made. So, without his breakthough film and first major roles, there goes his movie career. And without that, he doesn't get into politics (his early steps were the GOP playing on his celebrity).

Other film careers impacted: Bill Murray and Dan Aykroyd (Ghostbusters), Ron Howard (Splash, Willow, Cocoon), Tom Hanks (Mazes and Monsters, or whatever it gets called - assuming it'll be made as per OTL - will be his breakthrough instead of Splash), Ridley Scott (Alien and Blade Runner are questionable - maybe they get made maybe not, but Legend is straight out), this list can go on and on.

And, as already pointed out, a TL where the "religious" right weilds enough clout to kill D&D and Fantasy, there will be far more serious effects elsewhere, particularly in politics. Say goodbye to reproductive rights, sex ed, science education (geology and biology in particular), all the New Deal/Great Society programs, the establishment clause (at least for all practical purposes), etc. Say hello to serious censorship in the arts, music, TV, film, and literature, enforced prayer in school, and theocracy in general. This TL will look a lot like The Handmaid's Tale.

Ah, okay. When I browsed through those manuals, it was in the early 80s, 1983 at the very latest. So maybe they hadn't put in the helpful hints about avoiding evil characters.

It's been ~30 years since I crackedopen a D&D book, but I don't recall anything like that. Could've been though.

 

[TheGuyWhoHeartsHistory]

Does anyone think there might be mass revolt against the conservatives ITTL?

 

[Osakadave]

Does anyone think there might be mass revolt against the conservatives ITTL?

Eventually.

 

[TheGuyWhoHeartsHistory]

Eventually.

How severe of one?

 

[RossN]

It's been ~30 years since I crackedopen a D&D book, but I don't recall anything like that. Could've been though.

Unfortunately all my RPG books are from the late 80s at absolute earliest so I can't tell when the changes happened.

Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay (first published 1986) has an Alignment system (Law, Good, Neutral, Evil, Chaotic.) The system doesn't explicitly warn players against villianous character but has a defacto bias towards non-Evil/non-Chaotic characters by requiring starting characters to stick to their 'most common' race alignments - Good for Elves, Neutral for Dwarfs, Halflings and Humans.

 

[Osakadave]

How severe of one?

Depends. Could be just electoral, could be blood running knee deep in the streets...

 

[Deleted member 9338]

Wow I had them all.

I see it not having the legs to do away with TSR or RGPs. I was in the Navy at the time dealing with weapons and my chief and officers thought different but not offensive. And let's face it we were working with nuclear weapons

 

[overoceans]

Depends. Could be just electoral, could be blood running knee deep in the streets...

It would really depend on what form the initial wave of repression takes. If, as is likely, it's something akin the the Parents Music Resource Center(Tipper Gore et al) and the congressional hearings to get labels on rock music, it would probably just result in a few televised showdowns between the gaming industry and some grandstanding politicians, where everyone plays to their respective audience, and the forces of censorship likely throw in the towel after garnering whatever degree of electoral support they can from their posturing.

On the other hand, if we're talking federal legislation to outlaw DND, enforced by police agencies, then as has already been pointed out, we're probably already into a major dystopian scenario a la The Handmaid's Tale, and yes, you could see significant revolt from the disaffected, though a lot of it would likely have to be underground. There will be way bigger fish to fry than just the crackdown on fantasy gaming.

Realisticallly, I don't think you'd see much happening at the federal level, except maybe for those aforementioned congressional hearings, which would have little direct impact. Mostly, I think it would play itself out at the local level, with local law-enforcement trying to prevent gaming and fantasy material from being sold, arresting the sellers etc. Likely, most of this would be overturned by the courts, though if it dovetails with the ritual-abuse allegations(which in OTL were given an oversized dollop of credibility by the judicial system), it could get pretty ugly.