WI 1923 Hitler's Putsch had success?

Allied stance against the putsch


  • Total voters
    72
Adolf Hitler and The Nazi Party did a Putsch (coup) against the Weimar Republic in 1923. The plan was to use the SA and personalities like Erich Ludendorff to take Munich then take Berlin. It was a fail and Hitler was imprisoned for 1 year, he spent that time to write Mein Kampf.
But what if the coup was a success? The war would start earlier? The Allies would act against Germany after the Putsch or they would simply ignore that fact?
 
if the Entente reacts it won't be a war, Germany has no army to speak of and in 1923 the French and the British are far less sympathetic to Germany than they were in the 30's. Also the putsch succeeding is wildly unlikely. I selected 'they invade Germany' because its the closest to what would likely happen but your options are a bit one sided.
 
Dictatorships imposed by coups were common in Europe in that time, like fascist Italy. If the putsch succeed, Hitler would put himself as a liberator of Germany and would put the coup as a people revolution, he would became very popular in Germany but wouldn't be very agressive with Britain and France (Breaking the traty of Versailles) until the 30's. As I see, the facts wouldn't be pretty different of those that actually happened in OTL, until a key factor happen: The Great Depression. to me, is difficult to see how Hitler would react to the Big Crash and what could happen to Germany after that is difficult to know.
 
IIRC when Adolf came to power in the OTL, Poland advocated a preventive attack. But Adolf quickly did what he had to to reduce tensions. Realizing that Germany was still very weak in 1933-34, Adolf delivered speeches in which he feigned peaceful intentions. As Shirer wrote, instead of threats the French and British heard "sweetness and light." Some demanded Hitler be taken at his word. The upshot was that the nazi reich survived an initial phase of vulnerability and got the time it needed to strengthen itself. I think Adolf would've behaved the same way had he come to power a decade earlier.
As for the great Depression, Adolf would've said it originated in the US and was a jew conspiracy. I'm not sure the reich would've been all that affected anyway because of high employment due to rearmament, as in the OTL.
 
Wouldn't Ludendorff be the one in charge?

In any case, I doubt the Putsch government is going to be very stable, especially once infighting starts, and the communists and socialists go on strike.
 
Even if Hitler took Munich, he'd have to deal with the Army. And I don't rate the SA's chances highly. At all. Also as mentioned Ludendorff would be the one in charge, Hitler being "Literally Who?" as far as the people who actually matter are concerned.
 
Given the Hitler & company ran the German economy in the 30’s, unless he starts a war, I see the Great Depression completely crushing the German economy.
By 1930 someone else is in power.
 
It’s worth saying that the allies were already ‘invading’ Germany at the time of the beerhall putsch. The French/Belgians had occupied the Ruhr.
 

nbcman

Donor
It’s worth saying that the allies were already ‘invading’ Germany at the time of the beerhall putsch. The French/Belgians had occupied the Ruhr.
And the Rhineland and select bridgeheads over the Rhine were occupied by the UK, France, Belgium, and others. All those forces needed to do is head east.

EDIT: Plus they were occupying the Ruhr in 1923.
 
Last edited:
So to sum it up: 'Hitler? Wasn't he one of the group that backed the Ludendorff revolt against the Weimar government in Berlin? That would have been a German civil war except the Franco Belgian armies intervened to suppress the NSDAP army, called the SA, & managed to unite the Germans against them. & get tens of thousands killed that winter before a new armistice was worked out. Hitler was probably one of the NSDAP leaders shot when Ludendorff & his old pal Hindenburg worked out a agreement that decaptitated Rohems SA & its NSDAP political arm. Or maybe he was one of the politicos that fled to Sweden, Italy or wherever.

IIRC when Adolf came to power in the OTL, Poland advocated a preventive attack. ...

I'm thinking in the scenario above the threat of Polish intervention would be incentive to betray the fanatics and seek a cease fire with the Franco Belgian governments. Even with the Black Reichswehr & the embryonic SA the Germans would be hard pressed to have six or seven hundred thousand men under arms, and less than half that with artillery support. The French and Belgians were reluctant to fully mobilize, but the Poles are liable to gamble on fielding a larger army.

Worst case is Germany breaks down into internal war with the Communists cutting loose as well. That could drag on for a couple years, with Polish, French, Belgians, and token British contingents adding to the mayhem across large swaths of Germany. It could be years before a new peace is worked out.
 
Last edited:
For the putsch to succeed you need the triumvirate of Von Kahr, Von Lossow and Von Seisser to agree to aid Hitler, which I find as highly unlikely.
 
I put down "They don't do nothing" because frankly I don't think he lasts that long. Ludendorff would take over, probably have Hitler shot to get rid of a rival and then things go on from there.
 
Hitler in 1923 looked no more dangerous than any other provincial rabble-rouser to the French and British as I see it.

If the coup had succeeded, it would have been a provincial affair in Bayern which was not like the centre of the universe, even in Germany.

Getting from Munich to Berlin is more than just the mileage.

And as pointed out, even if that had succeeded, Hitler would then have had to deal with the crash instead of benefitting from it (votes and those things).

Very short-lived Nazi rule, and not because of any invasion. Germany would have kicked him out themselves - me think at least
 

NoMommsen

Donor
As already mentioned :
a "succsessfull" Beer-Hall-Putsch is (almost ??) ASB​

A "capture"/"occupation" of Munich might have been possible ... if Hitler would have been wholeheartly supported by Kahr, Lossow, Seisser. As @Enigmajones already said already unlikely, but ... possible by whatever butterfly/asb stirrs up their brain for the moment.

A "march" on Berlin "copycat-ing" Mussolini the year before in Italy ...
1._ For that the SA was much too small even if supported by other right-wing Freecorps and similar (what was already necessary for the "munich"-action IOTL) on their way and from other parts of Germany
2._ Seeckt and the Reichswehr would have VERY likely blocked any attemt of the "main colums" comming from Munich to cross Thuringia/Saxony ... as they had already occupied them after crushing a commnunist upreise right before.​
therefore we are now entering almost definitly asb breeding grounds.



However, "history" sometimes takes strange turns, perhaps Seeckt dies on a stroke, the Hitler-bunch get kissed by some early superhuman organisational skills and organizes a circumvention of the Reichswehr, maybe by getting all of their "supporters" and bullies (SA, etc.) by train into the capital.

What we will see is kinda remake of what happened to the Kapp-Putsch of 2 1/2 years ago. A rather short lived -a few day, two weeks max- spook ended by quite the same measures as the named Kapp-Putsch.

Pls don't forget :
its less that 3 months ago that a new Stresemann-goverment reached and end of the "Ruhr-Kampf", managed to end the hyperinflation by introduction of the "Rentenmark" and negotiated the beginning of what would become the Dawes-Plan.
At that moment Streseman actually was THE STRONCK MAN in Germany. ... and he wasn't the man to fold in front of a hysterical, ex-austrian, provincial side-note (up to the date of the attempted putsch) of the newspapers. ... which ITTL would most likely -at least in Berlin_ would also stop working/publishing (read about the Kapp-Putsch and the it ending General Strike).

In the wallies newspapers it would probably it might appear on site 2 or 3 after it ends, what would happen probably well before any wally-politician would have made up his mind to propose a discussion of possible consequences to his collegues.
 
The bigger question is what the Wehrmacht does when they realize how crazy Hitler is. Reason why most decided not to help with removing him was because he was legitimately elected.
 
The bigger question is what the Wehrmacht does when they realize how crazy Hitler is. Reason why most decided not to help with removing him was because he was legitimately elected.

Well fortunately, they'll never get to that point :p The OP said that the coup succeeds, never said that Hitler has to live through it. I suspect he'd have "Died heroically charging the last barricade" or something, if the Reichswehr goes over to the side of the coup... well in that case Ludendorff no longer NEEDS Hitler or his little band... and in fact they become rather a liability really...

I mean, really, who is the Reichswehr gonna listen to, some trumped up Literally Who Austrian Corporal, or a hero of the Great War?
 
Let us not forget one thing: The coup attempt is highly known BECAUSE of what Hitler became. Up until 1923 he was after all just another lunatic in backwater Bavaria.

Who really took him serious? not a lot of people. And surely not France or UK - if they could even spell the name.

The whole thing tipped because of the trial which gave Hitler the platform needed to go broad.
 
Top