WI: 1919 Pro-Union Lithuanian Coup Succeeds

You're forgetting that Lithuania's only port is Klaipeda, or as the Germans called it when they owned it, Memel. They'll just demand Klaipeda back if the get the corridor, then Poznan, then Upper Silesia.

Wasn't there a small strip of Lithuanian coast between Latvia and the Memel?
 
You're forgetting that Lithuania's only port is Klaipeda, or as the Germans called it when they owned it, Memel. They'll just demand Klaipeda back if the get the corridor, then Poznan, then Upper Silesia.

The Nazis did, because, well, they were the Nazis. But, whilst revanchist rightists will be arguing for retaking the Memelland by whatever means necessary however things play out, there isn't a strategic imperative to reclaim the territory, unlike with the Corridor, which virtually any German government would like to reclaim to various degrees.
 
Wasn't there a small strip of Lithuanian coast between Latvia and the Memel?
The city in that strip is called Palanga and acording to wikipedia, it was an important port before the swedes ravaged it and Lithuania was absorved by the Russian Empire. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palanga#History : "Between the 13th and 15th centuries, the inhabitants of Palanga had to confront the Teutonic Knights in the south and the Livonian Brothers of the Sword in the north. Their adversaries were unable to achieve their goal of capturing the Lithuanian sea-coast from Klaipėda to Šventoji. Although Klaipėda (Memel) passed into the hands of the German feudal lords under the Treaty of Melno, in 1422, Palanga and Šventoji remained under Lithuanian control. The two towns gradually developed into harbours and even greater centers of trade. British merchants established enterprises in Šventoji in 1685. During the Great Northern War, the Swedish Army ravaged Palanga, destroyed the harbour at Šventoji, and blocked up the entrance with rocks in 1701."
 
The city in that strip is called Palanga and acording to wikipedia, it was an important port before the swedes ravaged it and Lithuania was absorved by the Russian Empire. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palanga#History : "Between the 13th and 15th centuries, the inhabitants of Palanga had to confront the Teutonic Knights in the south and the Livonian Brothers of the Sword in the north. Their adversaries were unable to achieve their goal of capturing the Lithuanian sea-coast from Klaipėda to Šventoji. Although Klaipėda (Memel) passed into the hands of the German feudal lords under the Treaty of Melno, in 1422, Palanga and Šventoji remained under Lithuanian control. The two towns gradually developed into harbours and even greater centers of trade. British merchants established enterprises in Šventoji in 1685. During the Great Northern War, the Swedish Army ravaged Palanga, destroyed the harbour at Šventoji, and blocked up the entrance with rocks in 1701."
Also about sventoji (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Šventoji,_Lithuania) :
"The town always struggled to develop a port, which had to compete with nearby Klaipėda and Liepāja. A larger port was constructed in the second half of the 17th century, especially since 1679, when it was leased to English merchants. It was destroyed in 1701 during the Great Northern War. During the times of the Russian Empire (1795–1915) the port was moribund.
In 1919, after the breakup of the Russian Empire, Šventoji became a part of Latvia, like the rest of the Courland Governorate. In 1921 the town was peacefully transferred to Lithuania following a Lithuanian-Latvian treaty.
After the territorial transfer, the town became crucially important for Lithuania as one of its few points of access to the sea. The sea port began developing again: two piers were constructed, but they were frequently covered in sand.
Thus, it never grew into a bigger port, although Šventoji briefly became vital to Lithuania in the brief period between the German occupation of Klaipėda (March 1939) and Lithuania's incorporation into the Soviet Union (June 1940)."
So there are ports, they arent as good as Memell but if you have the money you can make them work.
 
The germans will immediately argue that the poles no longer need the corridor

The issue of the corridor is out of Poland's hands. Under the Treaty of Versailles, the city of Danzig was declared to be a Free City under the jurisdiction of the League of Nations. if the corridor is given back to Germany, then Germany will immediately demand the Free City back too.

Poland or any version of it will never, ever be able to stand against a United Germany alone and the restrictions on Germany will not last forever, France and especially Britain just dont have the appropriate desire or will power to hold Germany down forever.
In all likelihood, sooner rather than later the germans will be stronger than the poles by orders of magnitude and will find an easy ally in however is in charge in Moscow.
In that regard it would be better to secede the corridor to a more moderate Germany than it would be to deny it to them and force them to take it later

Wouldn't giving Germany control of Danzig effectively allow them to strangle trade to Poland? In our timeline, the Germans launched a trade war against Poland to 'convince' them to cede back Upper SIlesia, Pomerania and Danzig. Polish industrial output was significantly reduced and the zloty lost almost all value. It only survived because of trade with allies such as Austria and Czechoslovakia and because of a mass public works program, with two important components, the construction of the new Baltic Sea port of Gdynia, and the Polish Coal Trunk Line, a rail connection between Upper Silesia and Gdynia. Since the zloty had lost much of its value, export of Polish coal to Scandinavia became profitable.

In this timeline, there's nothing, save for Britain and France throwing a hissy fit, stopping Germany from using it's navy to blockade Poland's new port in Lithuania, effectively limiting Poland's trade to within the continent.
 
Bring it down a notch champ, I'm not saying Poland started ww2,

I suppose you didn't mean it, but actually you did say it ;)

I'm saying with alternate sea access it's more intelligent for Poland to cede the corridor to a non radicalized Germany than it is to try and hold it against an inherently stronger state that will almost certainly make a bid for it eventually.

The corridor was part of ethnic Poland, and the region had infrastructure linking it to central Poland which is why most of Poland's imports and exports passed that way. None of these applied to Klaipeda. A treaty of versailles in which Poland gets Klaipeda instead of access to the sea through the corridor region gives Germany control over Poland's trade. And what reason would there be to assume that if the corridor is ceded, Germany would be satisfied and not use its strengthened position to make additional demands? Ceding the corridor before actual demands are made would therefore not be intelligent. I also don't think it is a given that Germany would want the corridor back so badly because Germany had no vital interests there.
 
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gurgu

Banned
talking about the reform o the polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, except the dazing/Memel question i think about the other problems.
Having the old cores( Ukraine, Belarus and a piece of Russia) which would keep low the relations with mister Stalin, thus the government might even go pro-Germany seeking a possible help/defender( here, take dazing but for god sake help me). Better relation with Germany would help to avoid ww2( no dazing or war) and the two will make a partition of Czechoslovakia( 50/50). Romania will join for sure the alliance and a wall bordering Russia is formed: ww2 will be Hitler vs Stalin with the allies supporting Hitler( everybody hates communism), the problem would be what happens after Russia is defeated and Hitler annexes or makes a puppet nation thus avoiding any production/resources problem and making a man in the high castle scenario.
 

Foxx

Banned
You're forgetting that Lithuania's only port is Klaipeda, or as the Germans called it when they owned it, Memel. They'll just demand Klaipeda back if the get the corridor, then Poznan, then Upper Silesia.
And then the Polish Border Strip! ;)
 

BigBlueBox

Banned
Exactly what structure would the government have if the coup succeeded though? A centralized unitary state run from Warsaw would likely lead to disaster, but so would a loose and weak Austro-Hungarian style arrangement. At the minimum, the central government would need to be given control of the military, foreign policy, trade, and customs, as well as the ability to fund itself with taxes. But how many subunits would they be and what would they look like? Two subunits, one with OTL interbellum Lithuania + Wilno Voivodeship would be awkward be rather arbitrary and the Lithuanian subunit would probably have linguistic disputes. Pilsudski's idea of a three-canton Lithuania with Lithuanians, Poles, and Belarusians would be weird because it would have a federation within a federation. In my opinion the most natural arrangement would have OTL Lithuania, Wilno Voivodeship, West Belarus, Volynia, and the rest of Poland each be federal states, but that could anger the Lithuanians due to Vilnius being a separate state.
 
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