WI: 1707: Sweden signs peace with Russia

That seems a harsh judgement. It could have been successful.


Then the by then lost provinces would have been returned, and perhaps Estonian would have been two standard languages today, instead of one, since the Russians scorched earth policy did heavy damage to Dorpat/Tartu that was the centre of South Estonian.

The reduction of the noble estates would have continued and serfdom ended in Estonia and Livonia. Courland would have been Swedish.

What lost provinces? The only province the Russians had taken 1707 was Ingria, through taking Nöteborg and Nyenskans, and that was what Peter wanted to keep. Reval (Estonia), Riga (Livonia), Kexholm and Viborg all fell 1710. Before Poltava the Swedes had only lost Ingira to the Russians.

I don't doubt very much that Carl would get cocky and decide to jump in to that mess. IIRC, Marlborough (?) was sent by the English to gain a promise that Carl WOULDN'T get involved - which shows they were worried about the possibility. Plus, Carl would weigh in on the French side (most likely), and he DID toy with the idea of supporting the Jacobites just because.

No, I seriously doubt Karl XII would join the French - both Karl XI and Karl XII were heavily in favour of the naval powers (England/Britain and the Netherlands) after France treated Sweden as a secondary/vassal nation in the peace of Fontainebleau 1679. Getting entangled with the French had not gained Sweden anything but grief since the 30 years' war.
 
No, I seriously doubt Karl XII would join the French - both Karl XI and Karl XII were heavily in favour of the naval powers (England/Britain and the Netherlands) after France treated Sweden as a secondary/vassal nation in the peace of Fontainebleau 1679. Getting entangled with the French had not gained Sweden anything but grief since the 30 years' war.

I'd also note that the Maritime Powers joined Sweden in 1700 to bombard Copenhagen and allay a pretty serious threat to the Swedes.
 
Not yet. At Poltava, Anne was still alive, and doing everything in her power to prevent the Hannoverians from setting foot in England while she lived and breathed. And, if the story's to be believed, never quite reconciled herself to them succeeding her in Britain at all.
D'oh right, and the Hannover Succession isn't set in stone, as touched on earlier; as I recall, going by Stuart reasoning succession would go James F.E. Stuart (behind the OTL 1715 rebellion, which may be butterflied here), the King of Sardinia, the King of France, the King of Spain, followed a host of other nobles, mainly French. Did Anne support James Stuart succeeding her, or did she want one of the other candidates instead?
 
D'oh right, and the Hannover Succession isn't set in stone, as touched on earlier; as I recall, going by Stuart reasoning succession would go James F.E. Stuart (behind the OTL 1715 rebellion, which may be butterflied here), the King of Sardinia, the King of France, the King of Spain, followed a host of other nobles, mainly French. Did Anne support James Stuart succeeding her, or did she want one of the other candidates instead?

She hated the Hannovers (since it was dated back to the personal snub of George I refusing to marry her because of her mother's low birth, and also his mother's personality), that much was plain. And the story of there being a will extant (hidden under her deathbed pillow) scrapping the Succession Act, is probably apocryphal, but she did feel that her and Mary having no kids to follow them was God's punishment for their "unnatural act" against their father, and a justification of her brother's legitimacy. I read somewhere that she even toyed with the idea of naming La Consolatrice her successor, and marrying said girl off to OTL George II (and thereby preventing George I from becoming king), but that was only if her half-brother died before her. The idea would probably have gotten about as much lift off the ground as the proposal to wed La Consolatrice to Carl XII of Sweden, but again, this is part of what makes history so interesting. all these crazy schemes.
 
@Kellan Sullivan Don't know how Anne planned to "marry off" Louisa Maria Stuart when the latter (FWIG) traveled with her brother; that said, having her marry the King of Sweden, a Lutheran, (which was indeed considered OTL) does happen to take care of the religious objection to her inheritence. On the other hand, can Britain have a dual monarchy with Sweden -- especially one, getting back to the thread topic, that is still one of the Great Powers in its own right?
 
@Kellan Sullivan Don't know how Anne planned to "marry off" Louisa Maria Stuart when the latter (FWIG) traveled with her brother; that said, having her marry the King of Sweden, a Lutheran, (which was indeed considered OTL) does happen to take care of the religious objection to her inheritence. On the other hand, can Britain have a dual monarchy with Sweden -- especially one, getting back to the thread topic, that is still one of the Great Powers in its own right?

As I say, the fact that the scheme strains credibility (that Louisa Maria would even consent to marry a Lutheran, much less frog-leap over her own blood brother for a half-sister she had never met) is what makes it fun and borderline ASB (those bats must have been really tired to let this happen).

As to a dual monarchy, I don't think any of the other Great Powers in Europe would consent to it. Britain-Hannover and Britain-Dutch Republic were allowed because one member of the union was clearly the lesser partner (although said member usually believed it was the other partner that was the millstone/albatross). A dual monarchy/PU between Sweden and some German state would be fine (like Ulrika's marriage to the Hessian landgrave, and her previous engagements to the hereditary prince of Brandenburg or the duke of Gotha proved), but the same union with a second great power - let's not forget that until the GNW Sweden was a power to be reckoned with and the Baltic was essentially a Swedish lake at times - would get everyone's hackles up. Not to mention that Britain and Sweden's completely disparate governing styles (Britain parliamentary monarchy vs Sweden's absolute monarchy) would make it rather problematic. Parliament could forbid the elector of Hannover to go to Germany without their permission, but if parliament were to try that with the king of Sweden, chances are good that someone as arrogant/stubborn/cunning as Carl XII/Gustaf III (two of my favorite Swedish kings) would tell them to go fly a kite in a thunderstorm.
 
What lost provinces? The only province the Russians had taken 1707 was Ingria, through taking Nöteborg and Nyenskans, and that was what Peter wanted to keep. Reval (Estonia), Riga (Livonia), Kexholm and Viborg all fell 1710. Before Poltava the Swedes had only lost Ingria to the Russians.
I have the impression that by 1707 only the coastal areas of Estonia and Livonia were held by the Swedes. The inland was harrowed by Russian forces and the villages burned, the population killed or captured and carried off in slavery. Both Narva and Dorpat were lost in 1704, and already 1702 the Russians stated that there was nothing left to plunder in Livonia.

Modern-size Estonia has been said to have lost 60 % of its population in this war and a lot of that should have been before 1707.

If the peace demanded a return of all captives, one wonders how that would have been accomplished since some were sold in Turkey.
 
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What kind of video is that above? Now I have only seen to 5:52, but around 2:40 he claims that Augustus (Elector of Saxony) was Elector of Hanover and then that Poland was one of the three original enemies and that the invasion of Russia was the major mistake.

Someone else might rather have the invasion of Poland as the major mistake, giving the Russians a free hand in the Baltics. It meant that Polish resources could fund the Swedish war, but perhaps that war could have been avoided, using the Poles to hold Augustus back or even get Augustus as an ally against Russia, while Sweden uses its meagre resources on offensives toward Pskov and Novgorod, denying the Russians their harrowing of Swedish lands.
 
Out of curiosity, Carl was a warrior-king, so he's likely gonna get involved in some war somewhere, but how does the Swedish realm fare? Does Carl when he gets home to a Caesar's Triumph (probably) in Stockholm, actually settle down to the business of governing? Or is he unlike Napoléon (who wrote that it was happy for France that he is as comfortable with the smell of paper as with gunpowder in his nostrils) in that regard, and leave his grandmother in charge of the government? Would/does he marry (I would imagine it would be expected of him, so where/who)? And would Russia/Denmark/PLC accept that they lost and go off and sulk for a few years before trying again (remembering how they got their asses handed to them last time)? Or would they come roaring back before the ink's dry on the treaty? (I mean, it is Russia, there's hardly a shortage of people to throw at an enemy).
 
Out of curiosity, Carl was a warrior-king, so he's likely gonna get involved in some war somewhere, but how does the Swedish realm fare? Does Carl when he gets home to a Caesar's Triumph (probably) in Stockholm, actually settle down to the business of governing? Or is he unlike Napoléon (who wrote that it was happy for France that he is as comfortable with the smell of paper as with gunpowder in his nostrils) in that regard, and leave his grandmother in charge of the government? Would/does he marry (I would imagine it would be expected of him, so where/who)? And would Russia/Denmark/PLC accept that they lost and go off and sulk for a few years before trying again (remembering how they got their asses handed to them last time)? Or would they come roaring back before the ink's dry on the treaty? (I mean, it is Russia, there's hardly a shortage of people to throw at an enemy).

His father fought a war when young and then turned to administration (and quite well, too). Karl XII was highly educated in many subjects and by all accounts a diligent administrator during his youth before the war. He remained actively involved in the government even on campaign, giving orders by mail and taking reports by the same, doing things such as changing the Swedish tax system, side of the road to drive, updating the Swedish calendar and being deeply involved in the economy.

Karl XII himself stated that he would marry after the war - out of love, not out of duty. However, given his general lack of interest in women overall (no known lovers, only weak rumours of love interests during his youth), it is possible that he woudl adopt Karl Fredrik (his nephew) as hier and dedicate himself to the realm Elizabeth I style rather than marry. Could go either way, in my opinion.

Russia will of course be back - Peter or his successors will want security by distance from their new capital and control of the Düna/Daguva river.
 
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