Obergruppenführer Smith
Banned
I am rather tired of this kind of narrowed and simplistic narrative regarding 16th-17th century Spain being perpetuated.
Please enlighten me.
I am rather tired of this kind of narrowed and simplistic narrative regarding 16th-17th century Spain being perpetuated.
Some "patois" were separate languages entirely, most famously Occitan, with it's rich medieval literary tradition.You are partially correct on this premise. France also had regional dialects as well, called 'patois'. Spain was part of the House of Habsburg which they can marry outside of the empire.
I am rather tired of this kind of narrowed and simplistic narrative regarding 16th-17th century Spain being perpetuated.
I would like to add to your points.France was (and is) in the heart of western Europe, and has a direct border with Spain, England, Italy, Germany and the Low Lands.
It has always been the most populous and rich part of Europe until the 20th century
It has had a very strong influence on the rest of Europe, since the times of Charlemagne.
At least three times has made a serious attempt to become the sole hegemonic power in Europe (Charlemagne, Louis XVI and Napoleon)
Should I go on?
Because it was late to the party and didn't last enough. France was a consistently powerful and big nation in Europe for centuries before French began to spread as lingua franca, then several more centuries of establishing itself had passed by the point Spain had even formed much less become the power it was at it's height. Long before the time it took for French to start spreading Spain was replaced by the British Empire as foremost European power yet centuries would pass with French still remaining as lingua franca before it was overtaken; even then that can only be partly attributed to the British Empire with the decline of nobility as social force and the rise of the United States also playing fundamental roles.Why wasn't Spanish a universal language in Europe? How did French become the universal language instead of Spanish? Spain was a global power in the 16th Century and was very rich. The University of Salamanca was a popular place for the teaching of the Spanish language.
I would like to add to your points.
The first Iberian kingdom to be a European power was the Kingdom of Aragon. Its possessions outside of Spain include the Two Sicilies, Malta and the Duchy of Athens, which was a crusader state. Another attempt was with the ascent of Charles the V from the House of Habsburg, it combined the Holy Roman Empire, and Spain's possessions of Europe and the Americas.
Ahhh, yes. I recall that a married couple couldn't speak to each other because, while they both knew latin, they had different pronunciations based upon where they came from. So a lot of the importance of Latin came in writing, I would say. I just wonder if they would have managed to come up with some internationally recognized group to catalouge the expansion of the language to add in new words.True, and most of the times think that if the person they are talking to does not understand is just a matter of raising their voice to facilitate comprehension
More seriously, Latin has been a kind of universal language for at least 15 centuries, although I doubt that the Latin of 15th century AD would be understandable to native Latin speakers of 1st century AD.
Obviously when I say "universal language" I refer to a thin layer of educated people, but there is the other face of the medal: an educated person needed to have at least a working knowledge of Latin.
Wasn't it a well recognized term in history? Or are you questioning the validity either of the claims or of people having actually made the claims in a contemporary setting? I think we can treat it on a similar layer to the Blood Libel. Meaning that people in the comteporary period believed it was true.BTW, please can we avoid the term "Black Legend" on here, like it was a thing.
Wasn't it a well recognized term in history? Or are you questioning the validity either of the claims or of people having actually made the claims in a contemporary setting? I think we can treat it on a similar layer to the Blood Libel. Meaning that people in the comteporary period believed it was true.
Wasn't it a well recognized term in history? Or are you questioning the validity either of the claims or of people having actually made the claims in a contemporary setting? I think we can treat it on a similar layer to the Blood Libel. Meaning that people in the comteporary period believed it was true.
I'm afraid I'm completely missing your pointI would like to add to your points.
The first Iberian kingdom to be a European power was the Kingdom of Aragon. Its possessions outside of Spain include the Two Sicilies, Malta and the Duchy of Athens, which was a crusader state. Another attempt was with the ascent of Charles the V from the House of Habsburg, it combined the Holy Roman Empire, and Spain's possessions of Europe and the Americas.