I like how Indigenous Rights in the Empire is getting some attention almost by accident.
Why the Chinese play cricket (an Imperial Federation timeline)
- Thread starter Miss Construction
- Start date
Interesting that the Republicans hold on for another term here - however I'd say it's only a matter of time before the Democrats win, many elections in this era were very close after all.
Will be interesting to see what comes out of the next Imperial Conference in a few years.
Is the division of Africa more or less along the same lines as OTL?
Will be interesting to see what comes out of the next Imperial Conference in a few years.
Is the division of Africa more or less along the same lines as OTL?
Indigenous rights will end up being a running sore between the Imperial government and Dominions for many years to come. Many in the British ruling elites had a kind of rose tinted paternalistic "white mans burden" attitude to indigenious populations. Particularly when it came to "civilised natives" or "noble savages" such as Native Americans, Māori, Zulus and the like (less "attractive" locals didn't fare so well though). Not that this stopped them mowing them down with Maxim guns or burning their crops and villages as a "lesson" when they felt the need. This curious hypocrisy seems to last until the First World War.
Those actually out in the colonies didn't generally follow such romantic delusions however. They were much more of the "steal their land and reduce them to poverty as a source of cheap labour" mold. It why the Empire's indigenous peoples kept trying to bypass the colonial governments and deal with the British. They knew who'd give them a better deal.
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From what I understand of the Gilded Age, the big issue with the Republicans was their inability to abandon the spoils system. Eventually enough people got tired of the inevitable corruption and inefficiency, so voted them out. I see no reason to believe it'll be any different ITTL haha. One issue here though is Blaine's Anglophobia and anti Jewish racism (well anti Catholic too, but I've been told the Jewish vote was solidly democrat in the period, so the Republicans tended to be more open about that form of bigotry). Not sure how those will play out.
However yeah, eventually your get a reformer, probably a Democrat, but there's also Roosevelt. And the Progressive Age will kick off. If it's Cleveland who gets in, this makes it more likely he'll get two consecutive terms.
The whole Empire/Dominions relationship will be interesting awhile. Chamberlain really kicked over a hornet's nest by even mentioning indigenous rights. As I researched this was thing which stood out clearest was how the Brit advocates of IF seriously underestimated the Dominions fears regarding autonomy. The Brits were continually trying to push too far too fast, and then rejecting any Dominion suggestions which would move things at a slower pace.
Take Chamberlain's constant push for a customs union. The Dominions were unwilling to tie themselves that tightly right off the bat. So they suggested an Imperial preference tariff system, which Chamberlain always rejected. Then you have the various suggestions for some kind of permanent British and Dominion body to coordinate on Imperial affairs. The Dominions were actually keen on this, they liked the idea of having a consistent voice in Imperial affairs, they just didn't want it to be binding. They'd go along with any decisions almost always, but they wanted to be able to opt out if they ever felt the need. But again, the Brits wouldn't settle for non binding, so it went nowhere. So maybe Chamberlain's screaming c*ck up will be a good thing long term, wake a few people up to reality.
And Africa? Last time it went pretty as OTL with a few minor alterations. However not sure this time. The (hopefully) closer relationship between the Imperial government and the Dominions is going to increase pressure for things like Cape to Cairo. Will be interesting anyway.
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Lol helps when your in-laws are keen to talk your ear off about the Land Wars and the evils of colonialism. I also sadly grew up in the 70s and 80s, and NZ education tended to skate over these bits then. We were honestly told NZ history was some kind of enlightened colonial paradise of racial harmony.
Thankfully I did learn this was a sham early. I tended to hang with Māori and Pacifica people. They were better fun and more accepting of my being queer. I have some cool tales by about my very privileged European family in that regard, I think my coming out to my parents story is hilarious. Also some not very cool stories about how my choice of mostly Māori and Pacifica friends smacked a privileged white girl in the face with the truth about racism.
But I think last iteration was okay on Canada and South Africa (especially after the US invaded Canada). But yes, Australia and NZ got the short stick. Still haven't addressed the under representation of Australia this time round. Must fix that.
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Don't be silly. Australia doesn't exist. We're all paid actors working for the Illuminati to trick you into getting a microchip planted under your skin. Everyone knows that.
Shhh. Next you'll be letting on that all the orcs in lord of the rings and the Hobbit weren't just a handful of extras in prosthetics, multiplied by camera trickery.
Miss C's Design Notes #1 – How the timeline evolves
In the first two iterations of this TL I kept rigid control of the flow of events, only including things which fitted my established plan for how I wanted it to develop. It showed, because those two iterations totally sucked. In the third I started that way, but after some exceptional useful and constructive criticism from a number of people, I revised my approach. Instead of micro managing the TL, I adopted what I think is a more “organic” method. I examined the flow of previous events and tried to extrapolate like likely course of future events.
It seemed to work well, the TL almost took on a life of its own, going in directions I'd never even remotely considered. The TL sort of wrote itself, the only direction required was the odd prod to keep it broadly on the course I wanted. Well okay, occasionally those prods were solid boots to shift it in a Britwankish direction, I'm wanting to eliminate those this time round if I can. However, this did require a lot of rewriting. In the first two iterations I kept the stage almost entirely restricted to the British Empire, Other states only came on stage when they interacted with the Empire and when that was done, the disappeared back off stage.
While these other states were off stage, any changes their interact with the Empire had caused them remained strictly quarantined in that state. Any such changes had no impact on their interactions with other states, nor other states interactions with them. I have no idea why it took other people holding up neon signs pointing out how ridiculous this was for me to finally get it. I mean even the most cursory look at the real world makes it blatantly obvious, that's just not how things work. Regardless, it finally penetrated my thick skull. But this meant I keep backtracking as the stage widened to take account of the actions of other states, many I never dreamed would come on stage.
All the work on revisions was, I think, worth it. Due to this “organic” approach, the third iteration didn't totally suck. Sadly the TL stalled, for far too long. Probably not a bad thing, it gave me time to re-examine it. And I wasn't happy with it any more, hence this fourth iteration. One of my issues with the third iterations wasn't I hadn't dug deep enough. Also I'd skipped a lot of events simply because I didn't think they'd changed. Two problems with this. First they had changed, just not enough for me too consider relevant. Problem here is lots of small changes can easily combine to create big changes, Second, it forced me to rely on my memory of the OTL when extrapolating future changes, and my memory is far from perfect.
Hence all the extra information in this iteration. In case nobody's noticed, a lot if not most of the events mention have changed very little or even not at all from the OTL. They're there so I don't have to completely rely on my memory to see which way the river of history is flowing, and so I can watch for little changes building up to create big changes. I'm already seeing a lot of changes. In the third iteration, the ripples didn't really start showing up outside the British Empire until about 1906 I think. They are already showing up this time and it's only 1884. The first noticeable one was actually in 1878.
There's something else which has caught me by surprise about this iteration. I believe that on the macro level history is the product of forces and currents in societies, cultures, peoples and states. For example, during the last years of the 19th century and early 20th century, Europe was firmly on a course heading for the Great War, and it would have a lot of changes to alter that course. I had assumed when something important happened somewhere at some point in the OTL, something important was meant to happen ITTL at that time and place.
The OTL event might very well be changed, often radically. It could also move a bit, most forwards or backwards in time, but occasionally the location could change somewhat. But basically, those forces and currents eventually moved such a point that something had to happen. As the TL moved further and further from the OTL, naturally those forces and currents changed along with it. And totally new events started appearing completely replacing those from the OTL. But as far as I was concerned, the forces which shaped history always remained in some form, the only way to eliminate them was to eliminate the group in which they existed. However one thing never occurred to me. That OTL events could just disappear, completely vanish from history.
But that's what's happening in this version. It seems with this iteration, my beloved forces and currents can sometimes just petter out and disappear with absolutely nothing happening. I've just run into my first, In the OTL there was fairly major crisis in the Balkans between 1885-87. But ITTL, it's simply gone. All the forces which produced the crisis have been totally erased by the ripples. As far as I can see ITTL all which will happen in the Balkans during 1885-87 is routine diplomatic intrigue and political backstabbing. Business as usual for the Balkan at this time. Moreover, the disappearance of this crisis will affect one of the major forces which lead to the Great War, reducing its power. Not something I expected. I suppose this does happen in the real world. When I saw how it happened ITTL it made total sense. I just can't think of a real world example.
WOW this brief explanation of changes has turned a meandering ramble of my thoughts. Word count is high enough for a decent chapter. Sorry about that, I suspect I needed to unwind a little. Organic development many be better, but it does require a lot of research, thought and consideration of probabilities. Might keep this as design notes. Anyway, just what are these alterations about?
Well one of those potential organic changes is the leadership of the Liberal Party. I always knew Trevelyan was an interim place holder until someone like Chamberlain or Cambell-Bannerman could take over. But that natural flow events looks like it could rid of him sooner than I thought. Maybe even bring the incredible extremism of Charles Dilke into power, looks like he might escape his adultery scandal without being completely ruined. Would be kind of fun to bring someone who made Cambell-Bannerman look like a moderate into play. Maybe time for one of my gentle prods.
Plus I took the chance to show the continuing decline of whig influence in the Liberal Party. The other addition is just to try and bring more Australia into the TL. And the1872-75 chapters are low on word count, so I like padding them when I get the chance.
****************************************************
September 1872: After two and a half years work, the Australian Overland Telegraph Line from Adelaide to Darwin is completed. Stretching 3,200km across desert and barren grassland, the line is a triumph of engineering. At Darwin the line joins with the British Australian Telegraph Company's undersea cable to Java, thus connecting Australia with the rest of the world. The improvement in communications will lead to a significant and lasting increase in the Australian economy.
May 1882: Radical Irish Nationalists assassinate the new Chief Secretary for Ireland Lord Frederick Cavendish. Irish Home Rule League leader William Shaw publicly condemns the attack in the house, greatly increasing his support both in England and Ireland. However as a result the Conservatives introduce the Criminal Law and Procedure (Ireland) Bill which will allow for the unlimited suspension of habeas corpus and right to jury trial in Ireland by proclamation of the Lord Lieutenant. Despite opposition from the Liberals, Irish Home Rule and many within Gladstone's Free Trade Party the Bill will be narrowly passed in early August. Despite the Bill being opposed by the vast majority of Liberals, party leader William Forster speaks in favour of it, costing him the support of nearly a third of the radicals in the party. This, combined with the 50 remaining whig Liberals, is sufficient to cost him his leadership. Henry Cambell-Bannerman is widely mentioned as his replacement. However his outspoken support for reforms such women's suffrage, abolition of the Lords, the disestablishment of the Church of England and Irish Home Rule are seen as too extreme given the current political climate. Joseph Chamberlain is also suggested but it is felt he lacks the necessary ministerial experience. Eventually the moderate radical, George Trevelyan is selected as a compromise.
September 1882: The general election held after the fall of the Salisbury government again results in hung parliament, though support for Gladstone's Free Trade Party has plummeted in favour of the Liberals. The election leaves the Liberals with 294 seats, the Conservatives 225. Free Trade Party with 70 and Irish Home Rule League 63. Notably only 28 whigs remain in the Liberal Party. Trevelyan eschews a formal coalition and forms a minority government with William Shaw's Irish Home Rule League, guaranteeing legislation furthering Irish land reform. The new government is immediately faced with the issue of the occupation of Egypt, having based its vote of no confidence around the situation. Trevelyan declares the occupation will be strictly limited and British forces will be withdrawn as soon as order is fully restored.
=McUpdate=
In the first two iterations of this TL I kept rigid control of the flow of events, only including things which fitted my established plan for how I wanted it to develop. It showed, because those two iterations totally sucked. In the third I started that way, but after some exceptional useful and constructive criticism from a number of people, I revised my approach. Instead of micro managing the TL, I adopted what I think is a more “organic” method. I examined the flow of previous events and tried to extrapolate like likely course of future events.
It seemed to work well, the TL almost took on a life of its own, going in directions I'd never even remotely considered. The TL sort of wrote itself, the only direction required was the odd prod to keep it broadly on the course I wanted. Well okay, occasionally those prods were solid boots to shift it in a Britwankish direction, I'm wanting to eliminate those this time round if I can. However, this did require a lot of rewriting. In the first two iterations I kept the stage almost entirely restricted to the British Empire, Other states only came on stage when they interacted with the Empire and when that was done, the disappeared back off stage.
While these other states were off stage, any changes their interact with the Empire had caused them remained strictly quarantined in that state. Any such changes had no impact on their interactions with other states, nor other states interactions with them. I have no idea why it took other people holding up neon signs pointing out how ridiculous this was for me to finally get it. I mean even the most cursory look at the real world makes it blatantly obvious, that's just not how things work. Regardless, it finally penetrated my thick skull. But this meant I keep backtracking as the stage widened to take account of the actions of other states, many I never dreamed would come on stage.
All the work on revisions was, I think, worth it. Due to this “organic” approach, the third iteration didn't totally suck. Sadly the TL stalled, for far too long. Probably not a bad thing, it gave me time to re-examine it. And I wasn't happy with it any more, hence this fourth iteration. One of my issues with the third iterations wasn't I hadn't dug deep enough. Also I'd skipped a lot of events simply because I didn't think they'd changed. Two problems with this. First they had changed, just not enough for me too consider relevant. Problem here is lots of small changes can easily combine to create big changes, Second, it forced me to rely on my memory of the OTL when extrapolating future changes, and my memory is far from perfect.
Hence all the extra information in this iteration. In case nobody's noticed, a lot if not most of the events mention have changed very little or even not at all from the OTL. They're there so I don't have to completely rely on my memory to see which way the river of history is flowing, and so I can watch for little changes building up to create big changes. I'm already seeing a lot of changes. In the third iteration, the ripples didn't really start showing up outside the British Empire until about 1906 I think. They are already showing up this time and it's only 1884. The first noticeable one was actually in 1878.
There's something else which has caught me by surprise about this iteration. I believe that on the macro level history is the product of forces and currents in societies, cultures, peoples and states. For example, during the last years of the 19th century and early 20th century, Europe was firmly on a course heading for the Great War, and it would have a lot of changes to alter that course. I had assumed when something important happened somewhere at some point in the OTL, something important was meant to happen ITTL at that time and place.
The OTL event might very well be changed, often radically. It could also move a bit, most forwards or backwards in time, but occasionally the location could change somewhat. But basically, those forces and currents eventually moved such a point that something had to happen. As the TL moved further and further from the OTL, naturally those forces and currents changed along with it. And totally new events started appearing completely replacing those from the OTL. But as far as I was concerned, the forces which shaped history always remained in some form, the only way to eliminate them was to eliminate the group in which they existed. However one thing never occurred to me. That OTL events could just disappear, completely vanish from history.
But that's what's happening in this version. It seems with this iteration, my beloved forces and currents can sometimes just petter out and disappear with absolutely nothing happening. I've just run into my first, In the OTL there was fairly major crisis in the Balkans between 1885-87. But ITTL, it's simply gone. All the forces which produced the crisis have been totally erased by the ripples. As far as I can see ITTL all which will happen in the Balkans during 1885-87 is routine diplomatic intrigue and political backstabbing. Business as usual for the Balkan at this time. Moreover, the disappearance of this crisis will affect one of the major forces which lead to the Great War, reducing its power. Not something I expected. I suppose this does happen in the real world. When I saw how it happened ITTL it made total sense. I just can't think of a real world example.
WOW this brief explanation of changes has turned a meandering ramble of my thoughts. Word count is high enough for a decent chapter. Sorry about that, I suspect I needed to unwind a little. Organic development many be better, but it does require a lot of research, thought and consideration of probabilities. Might keep this as design notes. Anyway, just what are these alterations about?
Well one of those potential organic changes is the leadership of the Liberal Party. I always knew Trevelyan was an interim place holder until someone like Chamberlain or Cambell-Bannerman could take over. But that natural flow events looks like it could rid of him sooner than I thought. Maybe even bring the incredible extremism of Charles Dilke into power, looks like he might escape his adultery scandal without being completely ruined. Would be kind of fun to bring someone who made Cambell-Bannerman look like a moderate into play. Maybe time for one of my gentle prods.
Plus I took the chance to show the continuing decline of whig influence in the Liberal Party. The other addition is just to try and bring more Australia into the TL. And the1872-75 chapters are low on word count, so I like padding them when I get the chance.
****************************************************
September 1872: After two and a half years work, the Australian Overland Telegraph Line from Adelaide to Darwin is completed. Stretching 3,200km across desert and barren grassland, the line is a triumph of engineering. At Darwin the line joins with the British Australian Telegraph Company's undersea cable to Java, thus connecting Australia with the rest of the world. The improvement in communications will lead to a significant and lasting increase in the Australian economy.
May 1882: Radical Irish Nationalists assassinate the new Chief Secretary for Ireland Lord Frederick Cavendish. Irish Home Rule League leader William Shaw publicly condemns the attack in the house, greatly increasing his support both in England and Ireland. However as a result the Conservatives introduce the Criminal Law and Procedure (Ireland) Bill which will allow for the unlimited suspension of habeas corpus and right to jury trial in Ireland by proclamation of the Lord Lieutenant. Despite opposition from the Liberals, Irish Home Rule and many within Gladstone's Free Trade Party the Bill will be narrowly passed in early August. Despite the Bill being opposed by the vast majority of Liberals, party leader William Forster speaks in favour of it, costing him the support of nearly a third of the radicals in the party. This, combined with the 50 remaining whig Liberals, is sufficient to cost him his leadership. Henry Cambell-Bannerman is widely mentioned as his replacement. However his outspoken support for reforms such women's suffrage, abolition of the Lords, the disestablishment of the Church of England and Irish Home Rule are seen as too extreme given the current political climate. Joseph Chamberlain is also suggested but it is felt he lacks the necessary ministerial experience. Eventually the moderate radical, George Trevelyan is selected as a compromise.
September 1882: The general election held after the fall of the Salisbury government again results in hung parliament, though support for Gladstone's Free Trade Party has plummeted in favour of the Liberals. The election leaves the Liberals with 294 seats, the Conservatives 225. Free Trade Party with 70 and Irish Home Rule League 63. Notably only 28 whigs remain in the Liberal Party. Trevelyan eschews a formal coalition and forms a minority government with William Shaw's Irish Home Rule League, guaranteeing legislation furthering Irish land reform. The new government is immediately faced with the issue of the occupation of Egypt, having based its vote of no confidence around the situation. Trevelyan declares the occupation will be strictly limited and British forces will be withdrawn as soon as order is fully restored.
=McUpdate=
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Miss C's Design Notes #2 – The issue with India
This originally was something I posted in the third Iteration of this TL as I was retiring it it. At the time, it was just my reflections on my efforts thus far. I'm putting them here just on the off chance anyone who's only started following the TL in this latest iteration has the opportunity to see how truly badly I can attempt to construct a timeliine. Those who have migrated from the third iteration have already the chance to see my embarrassing early efforts. I do sometimes wonder if there's anybody still here who came in on my very first attempt. If there is, thank you very much for sticking with it during my floundering early attempts to construct a timeline. I know regard them as a learning experience. Trial and error does seem to have improved my work.
But after writing that, I thought I might mention something which has been troubling me about the TL for the past few days. In truth there are a few things on my mind with the TL, but this is the most important. I'll see how the word count goes if can bring up any others. It's about India. India is really the most critical element in the success or failure of any attempt at an Imperial Federation. There are, I think, two of reasons for this. The most obvious is the sheer muscle it bring to such a federation. This is so clear I don't think much needs to be said about it. Hundreds of millions of people, vast natural resources, a well established educated class and its immense potential for development. Not an exaggeration to say India is any federations hinterland. There was a reason it was called the Jewel in the Imperial crown.
To lose India would fatally wound an Imperial federation, leaving no chance for recovery. Of course not underestimating how much damage the loss of the Home Islands or any of the Dominions would cause. Even the seemingly poor relation New Zealand has a potential strategic importance most don't realise. Little isolated kiwiland currently produces enough food to feed 45-50 million people, and we're not even breaking a sweat. I've seen estimates as high as 200-250 million if we put our mind to it. Plus we're virtually immune to any attack short of a nuclear one.
But India alone, its loss would doom any such federation. Just as it did the British Empire. Yes, I know there were a lot lot of other factors at play at the time, at the time, but with India there could have been some kind of Imperial recovery. From my understanding, the Raj never ran in the red. The Empire would have been greatly reduced, that the Dominions were no longer willing to play dutiful junior partners couldn't be changed, but as long as India was part of it, some form of Empire could be retained. But it's not just India's muscle which is so vital to an Imperial federation.
I mentioned a second reason why India is so critical. I think its even more important than India's muscle. I'm pretty sure if India was lost before the hammer blows of two Worlds Wars, plus Britain and the Dominions were already seriously committed to Imperial federation at the time, an Imperail federation could have survived for some considerable time. Nevertheless, the second reason will ultimately doom it. To understand take a globe and look at the Americas. They are a very effective barrier to movement between the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans. The way our maps are laid out actually makes sense, the Americas effectively create an edge. Panama and Cape Horn are easily blocked, so you can not rely on getting passed the Americas.
So now layout a traditional flat map. Take away India and the Empire is divided into two very distinct groups. You have Australia, New Zealand and the Asian colonies in one group. The home islands, Africa and Canada in the other. Though Canada is sort out on its own. I'm pretty sure these two groups will inevitable develop very different and incompatible geopolitical outlooks and identities. Sooner or later the Imperial federation will split in two due to these differences. From there it's all down hill. Canada will eventually fall into the US sphere, The Asian-Pacific half isn't big enough to support itself. And the rump British African half will probably go down the path of the French Empire. Without India, Empire or Federation, it's doomed. India is the heartland of the Empire in more than one way.
Sign, this has turned into another of my rambles. And I haven't even got to what's on my mind yet. Though I do think it worthwhile explaining why I see India as so vital to any Imperial federation. But what's on my mind. You can't keep India as the Raj indefinitely. In fact I believe if you start in 1870 as I have, you have maybe 50 or 60 years until India is on a clear path to some kind of Dominion status, possibly less. I've gone with 50. To bring India in, you have to overcome two issues. First you need sufficient Indian people who are invested in the federation to take over from the British and run it, I figure maybe 10% of population, but that could be a high estimate. This is my educated highly Anglicised middle and upper class of Indians I take such pains creating. Not too hard to achieve but you have to deal with British racism and the legacy of the Indian Rebellion, which casts a very long shadow of mistrust. But as I said, well within the realms of possibility.
It's the second issue which is the tricky one. You very simply can not bring India in as a single Dominion. The British and the European Dominions will be terrified of being swamped in their own Empire by sheer weight of numbers. And they'd very probably be right. So you have to break it up into multiple Dominions. In the third iteration I went with seven. This time I'm going for more, possibly as many as thirty. That's the nine provinces under direct British rule plus the 21 Princely States which maintained their own governments. The other 524 Princely States will be incorporated into a former province. Not only does this further dilute the menace of Indian numbers, it actually seems a more natural and realistic way they'd go about it than the artificially created seven I used last time. The administrative structures are already well established and probably easier to get the Indians to accept it as well because they're familiar with it.
Which, after my ramble, finally brings me to what's on my mind, the problem I think I've seen. You can't make a partition like this work if the Indians aren't willing to go along with it. Even if you force it on them, enough of the new Dominions will cooperate closely enough to bring you right back to the weight of numbers problem. So you need to have a divide and rule policy in place right at the start. Seems easily enough, the British were very good at divide and rule and actually did have such a policy in India. And then you hit the problem, something I totally missed last time. In fact only recognised it a few days ago.
Alongside the divide and rule, the British loved creating a strong centralised colonial administration. They had a very good reason, efficiency and cost effectiveness. The British ran their Empire on a budget, so kind of hard to argue against. And in the case of India, the central administration was particularly lean and efficient. They ran thee entire country with just 1,000 British civil servants. And they were all British, the Indian civil service didn't start admitting Indians until around 1900, even then probably not more than 100. There's a part of me which can't help but admire that. Sure I have to put aside the racism, exploitation and occasional massacre, but to run a country of 3300 million people with just 1,000 bureaucrats in the central government is quite an achievement. Even if you include the Indian army, you're still only adding another 4,000 or so British officers.
This is where the issue arises. Most of the day to day administration was handled at the provincial level, where Indians were involved, quite a few. But the Indians always knew the real power lay with the central government where they were excluded. And they wanted in on that. Virtually the entire focus of early Indian nationalism was to get Indians into the tiny Imperial Civil Service. This where the pan Indian sentiment comes from, that first class example of just how efficiently their country could be run by so few people. It's entirely understandable they wanted to keep that lean efficient bureaucracy after independence. So the problem bothering me is, how do I stop that? Regardless, I'm going to have to dig and rework India yet again.
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This timeline was originally intended to have the Japanese playing cricket. However this timeline is now growing organically as I incorporate the very valuable criticism being given. I might still be able to swing the Japanese around to a gentleman's game, but the focus is now China.
The first iteration was to be frank, total and utter crud. Possibly it's actually an insult to total and utter crud to refer to it as such. It comprised of little more than unrealistic changes to history thrown in heavy handedly to achieve the predetermined result I wanted. I completely ignored the wider implications of these changes as I bulldozed history to produce an all powerful everlasting British Empire. In short it was nothing more than a crudely twisted version of the OTL with the serial numbers filed off. It's PoD was Gladstone forming a more radical cabinet for his second ministry in March 1880. That I never bothered with of the minor detail of why Gladstone did this is perhaps highly indicative of the flaws in this iteration.
The First Iteration
The second iteration was definitely an improvement, however it retained many of the flaws of the first and was still essentially the OTL with the serial numbers filed off. It initially kept the same PoD but as the TL progressed it became clear this was not early enough. Thus I shifted it to the 1870 introduction of the Tenants of landlords (Ireland) Act. Despite the improvements, the TL the fundamental flaw of failing to take account of the wider global implications of the changes occurring in the Empire made it unworkable. Eventually I realised this and abandoned it, rebooting it again.
The Second Iteration
The third iteration was finally a “workable” version of the TL. It retained the PoD from the second but I finally began to consider the wider implications of the changes I was making, removing the OTL with the serial numbers filed off nature of the TL. The TL grew slowly and organically, leading to world radically different from the OTL, almost unrecognisable in fact. I received a great deal of useful constructive criticism from others as the TL progressed. This often led to substantial changes to previous events, requiring frequent rewrites to incorporate these improvements. I was happy with this iteration and work continued for some time. Sadly life intervened and my work slowed and eventually halted for two years. This break has actually proved to be a boon. I frequently intended to resume work on the TL and re-examined it. These re-examinations showed many faults, particularly in the first 50 or so years. Correcting these flaws in the existing work would be impossible. These very early changes will inevitable impact the entire TL, effectively requiring a complete rewrite. One of the most important changes required is actually the PoD, it is far too radical a change. Changing this alone will impact every subsequent event. Hence the reboot.
The Third Iteration
This originally was something I posted in the third Iteration of this TL as I was retiring it it. At the time, it was just my reflections on my efforts thus far. I'm putting them here just on the off chance anyone who's only started following the TL in this latest iteration has the opportunity to see how truly badly I can attempt to construct a timeliine. Those who have migrated from the third iteration have already the chance to see my embarrassing early efforts. I do sometimes wonder if there's anybody still here who came in on my very first attempt. If there is, thank you very much for sticking with it during my floundering early attempts to construct a timeline. I know regard them as a learning experience. Trial and error does seem to have improved my work.
But after writing that, I thought I might mention something which has been troubling me about the TL for the past few days. In truth there are a few things on my mind with the TL, but this is the most important. I'll see how the word count goes if can bring up any others. It's about India. India is really the most critical element in the success or failure of any attempt at an Imperial Federation. There are, I think, two of reasons for this. The most obvious is the sheer muscle it bring to such a federation. This is so clear I don't think much needs to be said about it. Hundreds of millions of people, vast natural resources, a well established educated class and its immense potential for development. Not an exaggeration to say India is any federations hinterland. There was a reason it was called the Jewel in the Imperial crown.
To lose India would fatally wound an Imperial federation, leaving no chance for recovery. Of course not underestimating how much damage the loss of the Home Islands or any of the Dominions would cause. Even the seemingly poor relation New Zealand has a potential strategic importance most don't realise. Little isolated kiwiland currently produces enough food to feed 45-50 million people, and we're not even breaking a sweat. I've seen estimates as high as 200-250 million if we put our mind to it. Plus we're virtually immune to any attack short of a nuclear one.
But India alone, its loss would doom any such federation. Just as it did the British Empire. Yes, I know there were a lot lot of other factors at play at the time, at the time, but with India there could have been some kind of Imperial recovery. From my understanding, the Raj never ran in the red. The Empire would have been greatly reduced, that the Dominions were no longer willing to play dutiful junior partners couldn't be changed, but as long as India was part of it, some form of Empire could be retained. But it's not just India's muscle which is so vital to an Imperial federation.
I mentioned a second reason why India is so critical. I think its even more important than India's muscle. I'm pretty sure if India was lost before the hammer blows of two Worlds Wars, plus Britain and the Dominions were already seriously committed to Imperial federation at the time, an Imperail federation could have survived for some considerable time. Nevertheless, the second reason will ultimately doom it. To understand take a globe and look at the Americas. They are a very effective barrier to movement between the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans. The way our maps are laid out actually makes sense, the Americas effectively create an edge. Panama and Cape Horn are easily blocked, so you can not rely on getting passed the Americas.
So now layout a traditional flat map. Take away India and the Empire is divided into two very distinct groups. You have Australia, New Zealand and the Asian colonies in one group. The home islands, Africa and Canada in the other. Though Canada is sort out on its own. I'm pretty sure these two groups will inevitable develop very different and incompatible geopolitical outlooks and identities. Sooner or later the Imperial federation will split in two due to these differences. From there it's all down hill. Canada will eventually fall into the US sphere, The Asian-Pacific half isn't big enough to support itself. And the rump British African half will probably go down the path of the French Empire. Without India, Empire or Federation, it's doomed. India is the heartland of the Empire in more than one way.
Sign, this has turned into another of my rambles. And I haven't even got to what's on my mind yet. Though I do think it worthwhile explaining why I see India as so vital to any Imperial federation. But what's on my mind. You can't keep India as the Raj indefinitely. In fact I believe if you start in 1870 as I have, you have maybe 50 or 60 years until India is on a clear path to some kind of Dominion status, possibly less. I've gone with 50. To bring India in, you have to overcome two issues. First you need sufficient Indian people who are invested in the federation to take over from the British and run it, I figure maybe 10% of population, but that could be a high estimate. This is my educated highly Anglicised middle and upper class of Indians I take such pains creating. Not too hard to achieve but you have to deal with British racism and the legacy of the Indian Rebellion, which casts a very long shadow of mistrust. But as I said, well within the realms of possibility.
It's the second issue which is the tricky one. You very simply can not bring India in as a single Dominion. The British and the European Dominions will be terrified of being swamped in their own Empire by sheer weight of numbers. And they'd very probably be right. So you have to break it up into multiple Dominions. In the third iteration I went with seven. This time I'm going for more, possibly as many as thirty. That's the nine provinces under direct British rule plus the 21 Princely States which maintained their own governments. The other 524 Princely States will be incorporated into a former province. Not only does this further dilute the menace of Indian numbers, it actually seems a more natural and realistic way they'd go about it than the artificially created seven I used last time. The administrative structures are already well established and probably easier to get the Indians to accept it as well because they're familiar with it.
Which, after my ramble, finally brings me to what's on my mind, the problem I think I've seen. You can't make a partition like this work if the Indians aren't willing to go along with it. Even if you force it on them, enough of the new Dominions will cooperate closely enough to bring you right back to the weight of numbers problem. So you need to have a divide and rule policy in place right at the start. Seems easily enough, the British were very good at divide and rule and actually did have such a policy in India. And then you hit the problem, something I totally missed last time. In fact only recognised it a few days ago.
Alongside the divide and rule, the British loved creating a strong centralised colonial administration. They had a very good reason, efficiency and cost effectiveness. The British ran their Empire on a budget, so kind of hard to argue against. And in the case of India, the central administration was particularly lean and efficient. They ran thee entire country with just 1,000 British civil servants. And they were all British, the Indian civil service didn't start admitting Indians until around 1900, even then probably not more than 100. There's a part of me which can't help but admire that. Sure I have to put aside the racism, exploitation and occasional massacre, but to run a country of 3300 million people with just 1,000 bureaucrats in the central government is quite an achievement. Even if you include the Indian army, you're still only adding another 4,000 or so British officers.
This is where the issue arises. Most of the day to day administration was handled at the provincial level, where Indians were involved, quite a few. But the Indians always knew the real power lay with the central government where they were excluded. And they wanted in on that. Virtually the entire focus of early Indian nationalism was to get Indians into the tiny Imperial Civil Service. This where the pan Indian sentiment comes from, that first class example of just how efficiently their country could be run by so few people. It's entirely understandable they wanted to keep that lean efficient bureaucracy after independence. So the problem bothering me is, how do I stop that? Regardless, I'm going to have to dig and rework India yet again.
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This timeline was originally intended to have the Japanese playing cricket. However this timeline is now growing organically as I incorporate the very valuable criticism being given. I might still be able to swing the Japanese around to a gentleman's game, but the focus is now China.
The first iteration was to be frank, total and utter crud. Possibly it's actually an insult to total and utter crud to refer to it as such. It comprised of little more than unrealistic changes to history thrown in heavy handedly to achieve the predetermined result I wanted. I completely ignored the wider implications of these changes as I bulldozed history to produce an all powerful everlasting British Empire. In short it was nothing more than a crudely twisted version of the OTL with the serial numbers filed off. It's PoD was Gladstone forming a more radical cabinet for his second ministry in March 1880. That I never bothered with of the minor detail of why Gladstone did this is perhaps highly indicative of the flaws in this iteration.
The First Iteration
The second iteration was definitely an improvement, however it retained many of the flaws of the first and was still essentially the OTL with the serial numbers filed off. It initially kept the same PoD but as the TL progressed it became clear this was not early enough. Thus I shifted it to the 1870 introduction of the Tenants of landlords (Ireland) Act. Despite the improvements, the TL the fundamental flaw of failing to take account of the wider global implications of the changes occurring in the Empire made it unworkable. Eventually I realised this and abandoned it, rebooting it again.
The Second Iteration
The third iteration was finally a “workable” version of the TL. It retained the PoD from the second but I finally began to consider the wider implications of the changes I was making, removing the OTL with the serial numbers filed off nature of the TL. The TL grew slowly and organically, leading to world radically different from the OTL, almost unrecognisable in fact. I received a great deal of useful constructive criticism from others as the TL progressed. This often led to substantial changes to previous events, requiring frequent rewrites to incorporate these improvements. I was happy with this iteration and work continued for some time. Sadly life intervened and my work slowed and eventually halted for two years. This break has actually proved to be a boon. I frequently intended to resume work on the TL and re-examined it. These re-examinations showed many faults, particularly in the first 50 or so years. Correcting these flaws in the existing work would be impossible. These very early changes will inevitable impact the entire TL, effectively requiring a complete rewrite. One of the most important changes required is actually the PoD, it is far too radical a change. Changing this alone will impact every subsequent event. Hence the reboot.
The Third Iteration
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One option (honestly most plausible to me) is some sort of a "dual" Anglo-Indian empire. This timeline shows it quite nicely.
https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...nts-dreams-aloft-an-eastern-sea.490668/page-6
This seems the best way to keep it truly on the same course. Both sides then have a lot of strenghts to keep them balanced but also see the advantage to keep this symbiotic relationship.
End result will be similar in terms of Imperial Parliament seats, but power sharing will be there from the start and negate "what use is an empire if we are not running it" aspect.
https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...nts-dreams-aloft-an-eastern-sea.490668/page-6
This seems the best way to keep it truly on the same course. Both sides then have a lot of strenghts to keep them balanced but also see the advantage to keep this symbiotic relationship.
End result will be similar in terms of Imperial Parliament seats, but power sharing will be there from the start and negate "what use is an empire if we are not running it" aspect.
I'm wondering if having India be some kind of sub-federation would help? Each province is represented separately in the Imperial institutions, parliament etc., but India also has a system of regional coordination and so forth.
@Miss Construction
Guess you will have to play to grassroots sentiments.If the populations are against India,then there’s little that civil servants can do about it. The rulers of feudal states may also help.
Guess you will have to play to grassroots sentiments.If the populations are against India,then there’s little that civil servants can do about it. The rulers of feudal states may also help.
Interesting TL pity it seems to have been abandoned. Yes it makes sense and should work. I think I still have to break up India but yes, building some kind of cooperative relationship seems a very good idea
Yeah I did this last time with Nigeria. Plus Canada and Australia follow that general pattern. Could be tricky to work out though.
I'm working on it now. I think the key is to bring Indians into the actual administration of India sooner.
I also think it’s worthwhile to appeal to career politicians who have no hope of becoming all powerful in a large country, but would become heads of their own states if their own provinces are dominions.
Definitely, easiest in the Princely states , who on ther own cover a big chunk of Indian population. Should be achievable generally too.
I don't know why but people across the board believe that it is easy to split India(or rather any historical even OTL is shown as highly likely) and in most maps for some reason or another they split India in ways that makes no sense at all. Splitting India was an insanely difficult task which the Muslim League achieved(not the British policy of divide and rule{the Muslim League was an idea to weaken the nationalism among the Bengalis, in which it failed and it remained an upperclass Muslim organization without mass support untill a grand stroke of luck in the 1940s when the Congress was destroyed by the British in 1942 and it ran wild. It was anti British too but their methods were different as they did not enjoy the mass popularity of Congress}, the British till the end tried to bring about a compromise to prevent the partition) with a gread of luck and many small PoDs could have derailed the partition. Nationalism would rise with education and since the 1870s national consciousness was growing at an accelerated pace. Ilbert bill even with its modification is still racist. The government has to still resist itself from bringing the Arms Act(although people forgot about it, it was very important issue at the time) and the Vernacular Press Act. Keeping promises like holding the Indian Civil Services Examination in India(it is wierd that you think Civil Services was the goal of the early nationalists, Civil Services was part of a wider more important set of goals encompassing equality, basic rights and the freedom of the press) would all if kept only give marginal returns as national consciousness would lead to people demanding more and more till it becomes impossible for the British to swallow. Irrespective of the fact that the British prided themselves on uniting India, as soon as national consciousness grows splitting India would result in bloodshed of unimaginable proportions. Just splitting two provinces gave you the largest refugee crisis in history now one can only imagine creating 30 states. As for princely states, they are bound to die as they were often hated by their populace more than people resented the British in general and it was the British who artificially propped them up. So if you want to split India do so in the 1870s where it would go largely unopposed. If you do so when nationalism rises then you only get bloodbath. English education wouldn't be a cure that would eat away nationalism it was ironically English education that have the people a lingua France and connected them and have rise to the spread of nationalism before it caught on with the masses in the 1900s. If you don't cute the racism of the British, which was immense( fixing boards outside properties stating dogs and Indians are not allowed, kicking Indians out of first class in other colonies despite valid tickets and abusing Indians in First class if not dressed like Europeans). By splitting their country while keeping the others united for fulfilling the British dream of a superstate it only serves to show that Indians are still second class citizens whose wishes don't matter and their country is arbitrarily chopped up so that some one else can create a new country. Despite everything even if Britannia rules 25% of the global population the India's are gonna dominate it as united India comprises 18%+ of global population so now would making every county sized unit a dominion become a goal? If you think that the British Raj was a lean mean administration then you are also wrong. Only the army and the police were efficient. The administration was a house of cards that seemed incredibly strong but any threat to it led to it collapsing away. During the Second World War the rumor of Japanese ships near Madras led to the collapse of the Madras administration for weeks due to a haphazard withdrawal, Assam was virtually under military rule along with great many departments pan India falling under military supervision. The Indian adminstration was ill equipped to deal with anything more than tribes coming in from Afghanistan without having to hide behind the army. I don't know how can one call an administration that created famines worse than holodomor, led to widespread dissatisfaction in the populace to be efficient. Efficient to maintain a forceful occupation yes, efficient in its main purpose of ruling Hell no!
Thank you, you're comments will be very useful. However please understand this TL doesn't in any way reflect my personal views, it's a thought experiment of sorts to see if it can be done. If anything I think the TL is a very clear example of why it's a good thing the British Empire didn't survive. Realistically I'm well aware it the Imperial Federation can't be achieved, already the number of "prods" I've had to use mean if you listen carefully, this TL is accompanied by the sounds of leathery extraterrestrial flapping. I'm well aware of the racism involved in the Raj right to the very end, plus the tens of millions who died in the various famines. From what I understand the British only dealt one of them effectively, and even then the criticism over cost more or less prevented them ever doing again. My personal opinion is the Imperial Federation I'm creating is morally bankrupt. The highly anglisiced middle class you need to create in India is basically an example of mass cultural genocide,. And yes I do have a degree of admiration for how the British were able to maintain effective control over India with so few people. Doesn't mean I in any way think it morally or ethically defensible, just it was an impressive achievement.
Yes any attempt to breakup India has to happen early, before pan Indian sentiment gains a solid foothold in Indian consciousness, Before the end of the 19th century at the very latest, probably earlier. The only practical way I can think of it happening is for it to happen more or less "accidentally." I do have a vague idea how it could happen, but I need too look a lot deeper into it, Basically via the British trying to satisfy Indian nationalism by letting Indians control the provincial administration, while shifting central administration of India directly to Westminster itself (again I make no comments on the ethical or moral implications of this). However this requires a LOT more investigation and thought.
More importantly, the Arms Act, Vernacular Press Act and Lytton himself are all going to go fairly quickly. You can't keep them and satisfy anything the nationalists demand.
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