Why is Willem II of Orange Surviving Such An Underused POD?

But I suspect it's not just the relationship with the Stuarts which will be affected by Wim II surviving, but also the relationship between the Nassau-Oranges and the branch of Nassau-Dietz
 
In the early 1650ies Commonwealth WAS briefly allied to Spain. So at least until 1654 the Stuarts are not thrown out.
 

HJ Tulp

Donor
Willem II, not William III.
Sorry, hungover!

Anyway, he is still part of the Stuart family because of his marriage. Being mere office holders the marriage was the Oranjes big move for royalty status. They are not throwing that away to be buddies with Cromwell.

WII's grand strategy plan was to first have a go against Spain to partition the Southern Netherlands and afterwards, having secured his continental flank, taking an army to Britain and put the Stuarts back on the throne.
 
Actualy, in the 17th century, especialy at this point, the Dutch Republic was a great power.

My mistake, I thought this only happened after the death of Willem II (besides the Dutch seizure of the Portuguese possessions).

In the early 1650ies Commonwealth WAS briefly allied to Spain. So at least until 1654 the Stuarts are not thrown out.
Sorry, hungover!

Anyway, he is still part of the Stuart family because of his marriage. Being mere office holders the marriage was the Oranjes big move for royalty status. They are not throwing that away to be buddies with Cromwell.

WII's grand strategy plan was to first have a go against Spain to partition the Southern Netherlands and afterwards, having secured his continental flank, taking an army to Britain and put the Stuarts back on the throne.

So, to break this down into smaller chunks. What would be the most reasonable that Willem II could accomplish between 1651-1654/55 (i.e. before the English alliance with Spain fractures)? And would Cromwell's Spanish alliance fracture here, if both had a common enemy in Willem II?
 
The Commonwealth is not of a concern, if they are Allies with Spain or not. In case of naval defeat there will be need of a shift of resources in the Republic to the navies in stead of the army. Most likely this will be learnt the hard way as in OTL during the 1st Anglo- Dutch war. On the other hand William II will be in no doubt Allies with France against Spain in his early ambition to conquer the whole Netherlands.
More interesting question is what are William II ambitions are regarding dynasty. We all tend to think nationally while this kind of people think in terms dynasty in other words, of who has the largest piece of property in Europe. His sibling(s) do have a claim on the English throne.
 
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It seams that due to the peace of Westphalia the economy slowed down, it came back on speed again when Johan de Witt ordered the massive 60+ ships war fleet.

So the Dutch navy will be a force to be reckoned with here? Or will Wim focus more on the armies instead?
 
I do think the Dutch navies will be a force to recon with as in OTL, forced due to circumstances, as in OTL. William II understood the importance of a navy for the Dutch republic, he tried to reform the navies in to one central one which failed miserably due to large scale corruption by key figures in the organisation. But due to threat of Spanish navies and Englis navies, depending on aliances, will force the republic to modernise and enlarge
How ever the budgets needed to be divided between the State army, which William II needed for his ambitions and the Navies which need to protect the by now vast trade empire of the Republic.
The Confederate navies were funded for a large part by a kind of taxes paid by the merchant and fishery fleet. The protection of the fishing fleet and merchant fleet was the primary task of the Dutch war ships. Many patrols were in fleet or squadron size were made during the 17th century
 
I do think the Dutch navies will be a force to recon with as in OTL, forced due to circumstances, as in OTL. William II understood the importance of a navy for the Dutch republic, he tried to reform the navies in to one central one which failed miserably due to large scale corruption by key figures in the organisation. But due to threat of Spanish navies and Englis navies, depending on aliances, will force the republic to modernise and enlarge
How ever the budgets needed to be divided between the State army, which William II needed for his ambitions and the Navies which need to protect the by now vast trade empire of the Republic.
The Confederate navies were funded for a large part by a kind of taxes paid by the merchant and fishery fleet. The protection of the fishing fleet and merchant fleet was the primary task of the Dutch war ships. Many patrols were in fleet or squadron size were made during the 17th century

So Wim would presumably have to "reform" the taxation system, so that all the provinces pay for the navy/army? Or could he maybe say that those provinces that have coastlines could fund the navy while those in the interior could fun the army?
 

HJ Tulp

Donor
So Wim would presumably have to "reform" the taxation system, so that all the provinces pay for the navy/army? Or could he maybe say that those provinces that have coastlines could fund the navy while those in the interior could fun the army?

The problem with that is that the interior provinces (Utrecht, Gelderland, Overijssel, Drenthe and maybe Groningen) are too poor. Hell, Drenthe was so poor that it didn't even have voting rights in the Estates General.
 
The problem with that is that the interior provinces (Utrecht, Gelderland, Overijssel, Drenthe and maybe Groningen) are too poor. Hell, Drenthe was so poor that it didn't even have voting rights in the Estates General.

This was the reason that Holland and Zeeland had an outsize influence, right? They were essentially backrolling the rest of the provinces? And because they supplied the money, they felt they had/deserved the most say in how the place was run?
 
This was the reason that Holland and Zeeland had an outsize influence, right? They were essentially backrolling the rest of the provinces? And because they supplied the money, they felt they had/deserved the most say in how the place was run?
In theory everyone of the seven states had a right to veto, but when any other than Holland threatened to use it, Holland threatened to stop paying any money. This usually was enough to scare them off, only when all the others (or at least five of them) united against Holland, Holland had to cave in. In OTL this has happened a few times, but not much. The same happened inside Holland with Amsterdam and the other cities (and the one nobleman) This practise made a from the bottom up system that in theory couldn't function, actually function quite well.
 
In theory everyone of the seven states had a right to veto, but when any other than Holland threatened to use it, Holland threatened to stop paying any money. This usually was enough to scare them off, only when all the others (or at least five of them) united against Holland, Holland had to cave in. In OTL this has happened a few times, but not much. The same happened inside Holland with Amsterdam and the other cities (and the one nobleman) This practise made a from the bottom up system that in theory couldn't function, actually function quite well.

What would be the best way for Wim to get around this? Or perhaps make it that Holland couldn't behave in this manner? It's hardly as though, for instance, if he were to recapture Antwerp, that he could simply open the Schelde (since IIRC Amsterdam's harbour is better suited for trade than Antwerp's).
 
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