Why is sealion such a sensitive issue on this forum?

It wasn't even carried out. If anything its hilariously ambitious. It was simply a plan and yet it brings up so many emotions on this site. Why is that?
 
Because so, so, so many people liked to declare it's viability in the early days of this site despite being systematically shut down with logic and reason that bringing it up again causes many to groan and become immediately annoyed.
 
It's something of a dead horse, but I believe a successful Sealion used to be a very popular subject for timelines, despite it being such success being utterly implausible with a PoD close to the outbreak of WWII.
 
It's something of a dead horse, but I believe a successful Sealion used to be a very popular subject for timelines, despite it being such success being utterly implausible with a PoD close to the outbreak of WWII.
Add the waves of members who may have grown up under the spell of Hollywood's overinflation of Axis strength to paint WW2 as a "the plucky and brave Good against the powerful yet blundering Evil," and you see a result where many may think Sealion was far more possible than reality proved.
 
Honestly, I'd say anything relating to any kind of German/Axis victory in the Second World War is viable to cause a good amount of people to being frothing at the mouth. I personally don't have a problem with any of those TLs, so long as they're well-written.
 
Add the waves of members who may have grown up under the spell of Hollywood's overinflation of Axis strength to paint WW2 as a "the plucky and brave Good against the powerful yet blundering Evil," and you see a result where many may think Sealion was far more possible than reality proved.
This isn't a recent trend, either. Back when France had fallen to the Nazis, Britain, America and the Soviet Union were all so stunned by the miracle the Germams pulled out of their collective asses by taking out one of the biggest armies on the planet in a few weeks, that an invasion of the only major Ally still standing seemed not only sensible, but imminent. The British said 'Germany's so powerful, we need to pull out all the stops, this is life or death!', the Americans went either 'Dear god, we need to help Britain now!' or 'Germany's too big to beat, let's cut our losses while we can', and the Soviets presumably cackled at the English plight in the depths of the Kremlin, but then remembered that Germany was next door, and so got back to rustling up the best army it could to defend itself.

You don't curbstomp the biggest player in Western Europe since Charlemagne without getting a little 'street cred'.
 
This isn't a recent trend, either. Back when France had fallen to the Nazis, Britain, America and the Soviet Union were all so stunned by the miracle the Germams pulled out of their collective asses by taking out one of the biggest armies on the planet in a few weeks, that an invasion of the only major Ally still standing seemed not only sensible, but imminent. The British said 'Germany's so powerful, we need to pull out all the stops, this is life or death!', the Americans went either 'Dear god, we need to help Britain now!' or 'Germany's too big to beat, let's cut our losses while we can', and the Soviets presumably cackled at the English plight in the depths of the Kremlin, but then remembered that Germany was next door, and so got back to rustling up the best army it could to defend itself.

You don't curbstomp the biggest player in Western Europe since Charlemagne without getting a little 'street cred'.
I always thought that was one of Germany's biggest problems, they were victims of their own success. When they overran France so quickly and completely all the Allies panicked. Germany was prepared for a redux of WWI with better technology, while the terrified Allies were planning for the end-of-days and a fight to the death in the streets of London.
 
This isn't a recent trend, either. Back when France had fallen to the Nazis, Britain, America and the Soviet Union were all so stunned by the miracle the Germams pulled out of their collective asses by taking out one of the biggest armies on the planet in a few weeks, that an invasion of the only major Ally still standing seemed not only sensible, but imminent. The British said 'Germany's so powerful, we need to pull out all the stops, this is life or death!', the Americans went either 'Dear god, we need to help Britain now!' or 'Germany's too big to beat, let's cut our losses while we can', and the Soviets presumably cackled at the English plight in the depths of the Kremlin, but then remembered that Germany was next door, and so got back to rustling up the best army it could to defend itself.

You don't curbstomp the biggest player in Western Europe since Charlemagne without getting a little 'street cred'.
Good assessment actually :p

But yeah Sealion gets shut down a lot here because of the above mentioned "street cred" that GErmany has. A lot of people have many misconceptions about the war, and the one that Britain was one quick swim from being annihilated but was saved thanks to the timely intervention of the USA is the most irritating.
 
It wasn't even carried out. If anything its hilariously ambitious. It was simply a plan and yet it brings up so many emotions on this site. Why is that?
I think a lot of the problems people have with any realistic non ASB scenario come down to the fact that it totally ignores Britain's ability to resist it

I often see scenarios where some how both the RAF and RN are defeated or degraded or fooled to the point that allows such an invasion to happen - when History shows us that this was so improbable as to be virtually Impossible.

Then assuming this highly improbable pair of situations have been achieved the relatively tiny German Navy and Merchant marine is going to deliver more troops than were landed on D-Day and win despite no operational or 'tribal' experience of amphibious ops and being grossly out numbered by the British Army (who despite shortages and losses due to Dunkirk would still have out gunned the relatively lightly equipped German assaulting units and have all the advantages of mobility and Supplies) when they did land.

What really gets my goat is that the British Army is often portrayed as a bunch of poorly armed Hobbits with little or no fighting ability despite evidence to the contrary.
 
A lot of people have many misconceptions about the war, and the one that Britain was one quick swim from being annihilated but was saved thanks to the timely intervention of the USA is the most irritating.
Well, to be fair, we (Britain) didn't have much of a glorious time before the Soviets and Americans jumped in (pointing out to people that, for a time, the UK and the USSR were Brothers in Arms while the USA was in Magnificent Isolation tickles me, to be honest). We couldn't save Norway, we couldn't save Greece, or Singapore, or Burma, or even Poland, the reason we went to war in the first place. I'm proud of what my country managed to do, but still, OTL was a total Brit-Screw.
 
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I think a lot of the problems people have with any realistic non ASB scenario come down to the fact that it totally ignores Britain's ability to resist it

I often see scenarios where some how both the RAF and RN are defeated or degraded or fooled to the point that allows such an invasion to happen - when History shows us that this was so improbable as to be virtually Impossible.

Then assuming this highly improbable pair of situations have been achieved the relatively tiny German Navy and Merchant marine is going to deliver more troops than were landed on D-Day and win despite no operational or 'tribal' experience of amphibious ops and being grossly out numbered by the British Army (who despite shortages and losses due to Dunkirk would still have out gunned the relatively lightly equipped German assaulting units and have all the advantages of mobility and Supplies) when they did land.

What really gets my goat is that the British Army is often portrayed as a bunch of poorly armed Hobbits with little or no fighting ability despite evidence to the contrary.
Yeah, the British are always portrayed as this.



Fighting this.

 

Saphroneth

Banned
Because I want to use this where possible, the long-form of my sig:




From the Book of Revisionisms, the section on the Four Horsemen of the Wehrpocalypse:


And I saw, and behold a white Schwalbe: and he that sat on it had a V2, and an Enigma was given unto him: and he went forth wundering, and to wunderwaffe.
And there went out another vehicle that was red, and a tank; and power was given to him that sat thereon to outthink the Allies at all turns, and by all means, that they should be encircled and destroyed; and there was given unto him immunity from logistical concerns;
And I heard the third vehicle cough, with a sound of "exact analysis". And I beheld, and lo a black barge; and he that sat on him had a calculator in his hand.
And I heard a voice in the midst of the four vehicles say, "an 88mm is better than a 17-pdr, and a Panther is three times better than a Sherman, and don't forget the comparable historical battles."
And I looked, and beheld a pale Carrier: and his name that sat on it was Wank, and Screw followed with him. And power was given unto them over the mental capacity of the Allied Powers, to derp with paint, and with alcohol, and with blindness, and with the carriers of the Kriegsmarine.




And that's why. All four turn up - the German superweapons and the idea the Germans have the bestest weapons (despite the fact that, navally, they're SOL as of Sealion), the idea that the Germans are tactically superior to the Allies on all levels and in all situations, comparing completely irrelevant situations (outflanked, out of supply British troops in France in May 1940, or British ships being torpedoed by Japanese long range torpedo bombers in December 1941, to the ready and waiting British armed forces in Sealion) and of course the complete mind-boink that the Allies get in any successful Sealion.
 
It wasn't even carried out. If anything its hilariously ambitious. It was simply a plan and yet it brings up so many emotions on this site. Why is that?
Because it was an unrealistic plan that would have been carried out by unprepared units commanded by unprepared commanders who didn't have a clue about naval or amphibious warfare, and yet people still think that it just might have succeeded. And yes, there have been timelines that have started "After a successful Sealion..." before being roundly howled down with cries of 'How?????"
 
How Germans managed that with the RN still intAct still bugles my mind.
Winston as 1st Sea Lord sticking his oar where it wasn't wanted or needed didn't help things

Any other man would have been sent to Coventry and not trusted with a paper round after his interference with the operation

LOL and he was made Prime Minister!

Its a funny old world
 
Because it was an unrealistic plan that would have been carried out by unprepared units commanded by unprepared commanders who didn't have a clue about naval or amphibious warfare, and yet people still think that it just might have succeeded. And yes, there have been timelines that have started "After a successful Sealion..." before being roundly howled down with cries of 'How?????"
Yeah but they were Nazis, surely they'd figure out how to conduct naval operations on the fly :rolleyes:
 
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