Why Germany Won- Timeline of the Third Reich 1933-2010

Valamyr said:
FDR's new deal got the USA out of the depression. It IS the most established theory.

America was STILL IN THE DEPRESSION in 1941 when it entered World War II. Unemployment in the United States never dropped below 14% during the entire time Roosevelt was in office, until the war started. And it only dropped to 14% one time during all those years...the rest of the time it was 18% or higher.

The New Deal had NOTHING to do with bringing America out of the Depression. The coming of World War II...which absorbed all the unemployed into the army while infusing massive amounts of money (in the form of war contracts) into the industrial sector...is what ended the Depression in the United States.

And there is a very compelling argument to be made that the New Deal actually did prolong the Depression. FDR raised taxes and imposed wage and price controls and other regulations on business which discouraged entrepreneurs for starting new businesses, discouraged existing businesses from hiring new workers, discouraged businesses from carrying out R&D, etc. FDR also subsidized farmers to encourage them not to produce food at a time when Americans were starving.
 
Alasdair Czyrnyj said:
Um...I'm a little unclear as to why the Axis powers are able to develop nukes faster than the Americans. Did the Germans radically revise the math in their program and kill/capture most of the scientists who worked on Manhattan in OTL?

Also, what is the status of Italy? Is it integrated into the Reich, or does it still have its own independant empire?

Oh, and what does Japan control? I can easily see China, Eastern Siberia, and most of Southeast Asia. They get Australia and New Zealand too, right? Do they also get to share in the American and Canadian pies?

I still don't have the specific details for the nuclear weapons yet. Since the United States is much weaker then OTL it just feels right for them to get this stuff later. In the final edition I create, which be out in a few days, there will be a lot more info on it.

I'll be posting an appendix tonight on the Japanese Empire. They control OTL China, Mongolia, Southeast Asia/Indochina, Austraila, New Zealand, everything in the Pacific, the Aleution Islands, Hawaii, parts of Eastern Siberia, Nepal and a few islands in the Indian Ocean.

Italy is independent and is an ally to the Germanic Empire. It controls Yogoslovia, Albania, parts of North Africa and Ethiopia and some other territories in Africa. Note: Yogoslovia and Albania are currently listed as apart of the Germanic Empire, so I'll have to change that.

To everyone: Part 3 will be out soon, including some more expanded and new appendixes. The full version with all the updates, data, appendixes and little changes will be posted in a about a week.
 
Faeelin said:
WTF? While I'll agree with you that there's an interesting paper to be written on the New Deal (though not for the reasons you said), I don't think anyone but morons and lunatics doesn't consider FDR to have been crucial for America.

FDR was "crucial" for America, but he didn't end the Depression. Sorry, but he didn't. World War II ended the Depression. To the extent that FDR can be said to have brought about American entry into World War II, then to that extent can he be said to have "ended the Depression." His New Deal policies, while extremely significant for later U.S. History because of the dramatic expansion of the federal goverment and it's influence on American society which they represented, never had an impact on the Depression, other than to possibly prolong it.

BTW, calling those who disagree with you "morons and lunatics" doesn't prove your point. Care to offer any facts that support your point? Or is that beyond your capacity?
 
Sorry Robertp, but it's going to be hard to win this arguement. I believe FDR truly did help end the depression and he did a lot of good. But thats for another thread.
 
FederationX said:
Sorry Robertp, but it's going to be hard to win this arguement. I believe FDR truly did help end the depression and he did a lot of good. But thats for another thread.

Well, you can of course believe what you will. If he helped to end the Depression, then the Depression would have been ended and not still going on when the war broke out.

And to the extent that your point of departure is based on FDR's impact on the Depression, then this thread is the place to discuss it. :)
 
A little info:

Appendix J- The United States as of 2010

The United States in this world is a lot a different then in ours. As of 2010, it's occupied by the Germanic Empire. The total population reaches only 135 million and the Jews, Blacks, and Asians are all gone. (The Asian population were forcibly sent to the Empire of Japan, as citizens of the empire. ) Many of the major cities were nuked, killing tens of millions. Radiation damage is still very severe in some areas, including parts of southern Pennsylvania and the northern region of Texas and New Mexico. The destroyed cities were cleaned up by American slave workers when Germany took control. Pieces of the Liberty Bell were found and were sent back to Berlin. The Golden Gate Bridge was also excavated from the radioactive ruins of San Francisco and today is in a museum in Omaha, Nebraska. Omaha today has a population of 525,000 people and is the capital of the United States. After Washington D.C. as destroyed, Germany set up a new capital in Omaha, Nebraska, an area not affected by the nuclear war. The capital has a Presidential Palace, where the head of the American Nazi Party lives and works. There is a parliament building, with people elected by the ANP. There are a total of 250 seats and all of them are just puppets of the ANP, as the ANP is a puppet to Germany. There is a Foreign Ministry building which gets orders from Germany on what to do and an Occupation Ministry which is headed by the German Armed Forces. The flag of the United States has stayed the same, with 13 stripes and 50 stars on it, even though Hawaii belongs to Japan. There are close to 250,000 German occupation troops that act as the police force and deterrent against American resistance. They are stationed across the country, mainly in the big cities and around the capital. Strom Thurmond died in 1994 to a terrorist's bullet and was replaced by one of the American Parliament member's, David Duke. Duke is still in power as of 2010. All media in the United States is regulated by the United Germanic Televisor Commission, or UGTC. It is total censorship and only state controlled programs are aired. That also goes for the press. All magazines and TV shows are published and shown by either the ANP, the German controlled BBC (which has the best programing in the world, even for being state controlled, or the Aryan Press, or AP. Food rationing was once instated in the USA, but after Strom Thurmond's conservative policy on accepting the German rule and supporting the GGR policies, the rationing ended in 1990-1991. All products purchased in the USA are German made. The U.S. as of 2010, cannot purchase non-Germanic made goods. Many of the automobiles and airplanes are purchased from the GGR nation of the United Kingdom. Most people in the USA live pretty good lives considering they are occupied.
 
More food for thought

I can't really see an American president willingly allowing a hostile foreign power to base their own military forces in Mexico. I was under the impression that Mexico, as well as a few other countries, are informally viewed as part of a "zone of security" around the United States. I think the only reason the Americans let Castro stay around was because they had made sure that he wasn't a threat. Here, the Nazis are basing troops in a country that actually shares a border with the United States. The only way that could succeed is by nuclear blackmail. Maybe.

Also, you might want to up the causalty figures for the postwar United States. With the amount of nukes going off and the amount of bombings on continental American targets, most of the transport infrastructure and agricultural regions will be ruined for at least a decade, and the "nuclear autumn" that will affect the United States will probably make matters worse.

I know this is how Turtledove wrote it, but I'm just wondering why Japan didn't try to annex a hunk of the United States, or at least wrangle "occupational command" from the Nazis. Once repaired, the cities will be quite useful, and the West coast would be a pretty pleasant piece of Japanese Lebensraum.

Are there any countries left that aren't Nazi/Japanese-controlled?

Finally, any speculation on Nazi genetics? Without the discredit of the field in the world caused by Nazi atrocities, eugenics will be very popular indeed. I was figuring that there might be some attempts to breed superior (or inferior for menial work) types of humans.
 
FederationX said:
Sorry Robertp, but it's going to be hard to win this arguement. I believe FDR truly did help end the depression and he did a lot of good. But thats for another thread.

I don't think the New Deal ended the Depression, but New Deal programs certainly helped those who were hurt by it. He also helped blacks a lot, I believe, and they were the ones who REALLY got screwed (the whites threw them out of their menial jobs and they were ignored by charities).
 
Alasdair Czyrnyj said:
I can't really see an American president willingly allowing a hostile foreign power to base their own military forces in Mexico. I was under the impression that Mexico, as well as a few other countries, are informally viewed as part of a "zone of security" around the United States. I think the only reason the Americans let Castro stay around was because they had made sure that he wasn't a threat. Here, the Nazis are basing troops in a country that actually shares a border with the United States. The only way that could succeed is by nuclear blackmail. Maybe.

Also, you might want to up the causalty figures for the postwar United States. With the amount of nukes going off and the amount of bombings on continental American targets, most of the transport infrastructure and agricultural regions will be ruined for at least a decade, and the "nuclear autumn" that will affect the United States will probably make matters worse.

I know this is how Turtledove wrote it, but I'm just wondering why Japan didn't try to annex a hunk of the United States, or at least wrangle "occupational command" from the Nazis. Once repaired, the cities will be quite useful, and the West coast would be a pretty pleasant piece of Japanese Lebensraum.

Are there any countries left that aren't Nazi/Japanese-controlled?

Finally, any speculation on Nazi genetics? Without the discredit of the field in the world caused by Nazi atrocities, eugenics will be very popular indeed. I was figuring that there might be some attempts to breed superior (or inferior for menial work) types of humans.

My final timeline will deal with the German involvment in Mexico. I'm still thinking up some ideas on how its going to work(1). As for Japan not getting the western United States, they didn't want a war with Germany over it. Japan did not play a role in the grand defeat of America. Their main priority was Australia, New Zealand and the Philippines. Most of the Japanese forces in the war were bogged down in the pacific. They were lucky they even got Hawaii. Germany made sure they would get what they wanted.

The only nations not under German/Japanese direct control are the ones in South America. Brazil and Chilie have puppet governments, since they did openly support the United States and Canada during World War 3. The other countries in SA are apart of the GAP, an alliance controlled by Germany. They control their own government and foreign policy, but they do anything to please the Germanic Empire so they aren't victims of war, also. As for genetics, that kind of tested has not yet been experiamented with yet, but will be sometime in the mid-21st century.
 
More criticism again.

I would recommend against having Strom Thurmond being installed as the president of the American Reich. After all, there is a fundamental difference between disenfranchising blacks and shipping them to death camps, and Thurmond, though a racist, might not be willing to go that far. Also, the affair he had with his black maid might render him too "racially corruptable" (whatever that means) to be president.

Also, I'd just suggest calling the American Nazi Party something different, as people might be less willing to listen to "Nazis" than the "American Patriot Party" or "True American Party".
 
Thank you for your comments. Thurmand is the chairman of the American Nazi Party, hence he is the "President" of the United States. I'm not sure if I will change the ANP name or not, only because if you're nuked and occupied, you'll listen to whoever is in charge. Part 3 this weekend, PROMISE!
 
DMA said:
7) The most important battle, however, will take place at sea. Expect a major naval battle north-east of Ramsgate a few days day after the invasion. Flip a coin - heads Germans win, tails they lose. If they lose, the German invasion army is defeated (or forced to surrender) a week or so later due to lack of supplies. If the Germans win, Britian is probably defeated before the RN can put together another major force to make an effort to retake the Channel.


Of course a "win" for the German navy is 40% losses for the Brits, making them pull back and regroup for a week, and 90% losses for the Kreigsmarine.
Using Hearts of Iron to game this I landed enough troops in Britian to win but it cost me every german ship except a pair of destroyers.
This is a fight to the death for the Kreigsmarine just to delay the Royal Navy for a few days.
 
Hearts of Iron

Using Hearts of Iron to game this I landed enough troops in Britian to win but it cost me every german ship except a pair of destroyers.

I've played Hearts of Iron several times and every time that I did so I did not have very much difficulty with the RN. As soon as I took Paris the French surrendered and I went with the Vichy option, as in OTL. As soon as I could I took as the BEF out and did not allow a Dunkirk. Then I bounced across the channel. I did not go after Norway as this was a diversion from the main objective, so the Kriegsmarine could concentrate on the RN and Operation Sealion.
 
When I invaded Britain in HOI the RN just sat in the Irish sea and never made any attempt to stop me. That just goes to show how poor the AI can be.
 
Here's a really quick map in the year 1985:

Blue: Minor nations

Grey: Germanic Empire

Green: Italian Empire

Yellow: Japanese Empire

Baige: German occupied

Third Reich backup.JPG
 
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