Why didn't the British introduce more democracy in Hong Kong?

Which leader of China, and at what point in time, would go and start a war with NATO?
None, as there would be no war. China did come very close to conducting a police action during the Cold War so it is not that unrealistic. FYI NATO does not protect non North American or European holdings of its members (Falklands anyone?)
 
Which leader of China, and at what point in time, would go and start a war with NATO?
Deng Xiaoping explicitly threatened Thatcher that his troops can take over Hong Kong on the spot. And when Thatcher asked Reagan for assistance, he responded with an extremely polite letter.

In any case, even if the New Territories were formally annexed, Deng will still demand its return - Macau was permanently ceded and it was returned to China too.
 
I think...

...Pternagy and Tyr have hit the core of the problem.

Hong Kong was just too small to survive.

What is more reprehensible is the reluctance of the UK to accept immigration from Hong Kong - these extremely loyal and hardworking Chinese people could have been an effective counterweight to the less scrupulous economic migrants and to those who want to abolish democracy and religious tolerance in the UK.

Unfortunately, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office just didn't have the vision. No surprise, there... *Thinks : That rat Salisbury and Heligoland:mad:*

A pity, as otherwise Chinese cuisine would be on every street corner. It would also have ensured the immigration of loyal Gurkhas.

I'm an unashamed multiracialist.
 
...Pternagy and Tyr have hit the core of the problem.

Hong Kong was just too small to survive.

What is more reprehensible is the reluctance of the UK to accept immigration from Hong Kong - these extremely loyal and hardworking Chinese people could have been an effective counterweight to the less scrupulous economic migrants and to those who want to abolish democracy and religious tolerance in the UK.

Unfortunately, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office just didn't have the vision. No surprise, there... *Thinks : That rat Salisbury and Heligoland:mad:*

A pity, as otherwise Chinese cuisine would be on every street corner. It would also have ensured the immigration of loyal Gurkhas.

I'm an unashamed multiracialist.

Actually that's a very good point- Britain had plausible reasons not to push for democratic reform in Hong Kong. It's reasons for not granting Hong Kongers British citizenship are much murkier.
 
Actually that's a very good point- Britain had plausible reasons not to push for democratic reform in Hong Kong. It's reasons for not granting Hong Kongers British citizenship are much murkier.
Could a Korean War POD get the UK an extended lease? Which would mean that these issues would have to be resolved in this century?
 
The Chinese towards the end made it clear that if there wasn't a handover that they were pretty much just going to take it.

There really aren't that many ways to save British Hong Kong, in the end.
 

iddt3

Donor
...Pternagy and Tyr have hit the core of the problem.

Hong Kong was just too small to survive.

What is more reprehensible is the reluctance of the UK to accept immigration from Hong Kong - these extremely loyal and hardworking Chinese people could have been an effective counterweight to the less scrupulous economic migrants and to those who want to abolish democracy and religious tolerance in the UK.

Unfortunately, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office just didn't have the vision. No surprise, there... *Thinks : That rat Salisbury and Heligoland:mad:*

A pity, as otherwise Chinese cuisine would be on every street corner. It would also have ensured the immigration of loyal Gurkhas.

I'm an unashamed multiracialist.
Wouldn't the Hong Kongers (ites?) be economic migrants too?
 

iddt3

Donor
The Chinese towards the end made it clear that if there wasn't a handover that they were pretty much just going to take it.

There really aren't that many ways to save British Hong Kong, in the end.
Sino Soviet War in the '60s, British provide aid to the Chinese on the condition of making the New Territories a permanent addition?
 
Sino Soviet War in the '60s, British provide aid to the Chinese on the condition of making the New Territories a permanent addition?

I think that Britain would prefer for China to lose and be made subordinate to the USSR (who could theoretically be persuaded that keeping quiet on Hong Kong would do nicely as a trade off in some negotiation or other because they honestly couldn't care less about the situation) than to arm China and thus give them more ability to just turn around and take over at a later date.
 
Sino Soviet War in the '60s, British provide aid to the Chinese on the condition of making the New Territories a permanent addition?

But that doesn't mean that future generations of Chinese leadership aren't going to feel the same way about Hong Kong as Deng and co. did.

Plenty of nations condemned India just blazing into Goa, but it didn't stop them in the end.
 

elkarlo

Banned
The unspoken reason is because the British feared Chinese infiltration in Hong Kong during the Cold War, and activists for greater democracy were considered subversives and often received unfriendly police visits at midnight.


Was going to say this. They prolly didn't trust the Chinese to not make the colony commie
 
...Pternagy and Tyr have hit the core of the problem.

Hong Kong was just too small to survive.

What is more reprehensible is the reluctance of the UK to accept immigration from Hong Kong - these extremely loyal and hardworking Chinese people could have been an effective counterweight to the less scrupulous economic migrants and to those who want to abolish democracy and religious tolerance in the UK.

Unfortunately, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office just didn't have the vision. No surprise, there... *Thinks : That rat Salisbury and Heligoland:mad:*

A pity, as otherwise Chinese cuisine would be on every street corner. It would also have ensured the immigration of loyal Gurkhas.

I'm an unashamed multiracialist.

Denying the Hong Kongers citizenship- yep. On the surface that is pretty horrible.
A counterweight to those wanting to abolish democracy though? What? How many of those are there? 10,000 absolute max.

Playing devil's advocate with fucking over the Hong Kongers - it wasn't just racism (though 1980s Tories? Yeah, undoubtedly a lot of that) there was the chain of thought that this might destroy Hong Kong's economy if they could all just move to the UK.
Of course that's somewhat overlooking the wealth of Hong Kong but undoubtedly it would have some impact, especially given how unequal Hong Kong is and its less than British-standard benefits packages.
 
What sort of Korean War POD could get Britain an extended lease?
I'm not sure TBH. I was working on the assumption that might Mao occupy Hong Kong in retaliation for Britain's involvement in Korea and at the end of the War Britain gets given an extended lease as part of the Armistice. I've no idea how plausible that is though.
 
...In any case, even if the New Territories were formally annexed, Deng will still demand its return - Macau was permanently ceded and it was returned to China too.

Didn't the Portuguese try to hand Macau back in the '70s after the Carnation Revolution only for the Chinese to reject it?
 
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