Why did Protestantism temporarily succeed in Southern France but not in the rest of Southern Europe?

Many people claim, that, the Protestant reformation had sociopolitical and cultural roots that could not be found in Southern Europe but I question that notion since Southern France was the Huguenot stronghold. Why did Protestantism temporarily succeed in Southern France but not in the rest of Southern Europe?
 
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Many people claim, that, the Protestant reformation had sociopolitical and cultural roots that could not be found in Southern Europe but I question that notion since Southern France was the Huguenot stronghold. Why did Protestantism temporarily succeed in Southern France but not in the rest of Southern Europe?

As far as I know it only succeded "temporarily" because they were brutally killed after the initial success. Is that true?
 
As far as I know it only succeded "temporarily" because they were brutally killed after the initial success. Is that true?

Are you talking about France? If so, the massacre of St. Barthélemy in 1582 and the following persecutions did reduce the Hugenots' numbers, read on the French Wars of Religion, but in 1598 they got the Edict of Nantes, giving them religious freedom, until it was repealed in 1685.
 
I am affraid I can't provide a fully fledged, developed answer but I would say that two factors probably strongly contributed to it:

I. The simple fact that Southern France was part of France. As a state, France was partly situated in Northern Europe, and at the time its economy and geopolitical interests where increasingly turned in that direction, essentially ensuring that France would see Protestantism spread to its soil to at least some degree. Gascony and Saintonge-Poitou, two of the three main centers of Protestantism in France, with the Pyrennean areas being the third, are prime examples of regions being geographically situated in Southern Europe but whose economies and culture where turned toward Northern Europe and Atlantic.

II. The true centers of French Protestantism tended to gravitate toward the Navarese Crown and the House of Bourbon early on, therefore making them semi-independent from Paris. In second and third quarters of the 16th century the Bourbons often saw Protestantism as a usefull way to glue the different territories they more or less held sway over together and differentiate them from the rest of France and as a usefull weapon to expend their influence. Obviously that changed when the perspective of inheriting the French Crown grew closer but by then Protestantism was solidly implented in Southern France.
 
I am affraid I can't provide a fully fledged, developed answer but I would say that two factors probably strongly contributed to it:

I. The simple fact that Southern France was part of France. As a state, France was partly situated in Northern Europe, and at the time its economy and geopolitical interests where increasingly turned in that direction, essentially ensuring that France would see Protestantism spread to its soil to at least some degree. Gascony and Saintonge-Poitou, two of the three main centers of Protestantism in France, with the Pyrennean areas being the third, are prime examples of regions being geographically situated in Southern Europe but whose economies and culture where turned toward Northern Europe and Atlantic.

II. The true centers of French Protestantism tended to gravitate toward the Navarese Crown and the House of Bourbon early on, therefore making them semi-independent from Paris. In second and third quarters of the 16th century the Bourbons often saw Protestantism as a usefull way to glue the different territories they more or less held sway over together and differentiate them from the rest of France and as a usefull weapon to expend their influence. Obviously that changed when the perspective of inheriting the French Crown grew closer but by then Protestantism was solidly implented in Southern France.

My country, Portugal, has historically been oriented towards the Atlantic and been allied with England, but there was no Protestant movement in Portugal.
 
My country, Portugal, has historically been oriented towards the Atlantic and been allied with England, but there was no Protestant movement in Portugal.
Yes but, culturally and economically, your ties with Spain in that era counterbalanced that (and in any case, correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe the Anglo-Portugese alliance was too active at the time). Moreover, Portugal wasn't part of a country who geographically was partially part of Northern Europe and whose culture, economy and geopolitical interest where increasingly turned in that direction.
 
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Yes but, culturally and economically, your ties with Spain in that era counterbalanced that (and in any case, correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe the Anglo-Portugese alliance was too active at the time). Moreover, Portugal wasn't part of a country who geographically was partially part of Northern Europe and whose culture, economy and geopolitical interest where increasingly turned in that direction.

We adopted a neutral stance in most European wars of the time, we were somewhat isolationist on European matters.
 
We adopted a neutral stance in most European wars of the time, we were somewhat isolationist on European matters.
My point exactly,

They're is also the fact that, while it obviously played to a lesser degree then in Spain, the legacy of the Reconquista did make Catholicism position in Portugal far more unasailable then it was in France.

All and all, the analogy between the two (Portugal and the French centers of Protestantism on the Atlantic) doesn't work for various reasons in this instance.
 
Yes but, culturally and economically, your ties with Spain in that era counterbalanced that (and in any case, correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe the Anglo-Portugese alliance was too active at the time). Moreover, Portugal wasn't part of a country who geographically was partially part of Northern Europe and whose culture, economy and geopolitical interest where increasingly turned in that direction.

Maybe French economy and geopolitics were oriented towards Northern Europe but, since France is Romance-speaking, culture definitely wasn't.
 
My point exactly,

They're is also the fact that, while it obviously played to a lesser degree then in Spain, the legacy of the Reconquista did make Catholicism position in Portugal far more unasailable then it was in France.

All and all, the analogy between the two (Portugal and the French centers of Protestantism on the Atlantic) doesn't work for various reasons in this instance.

The Reconquista had been finished in Portugal for a long time, by the time of the Protestant Reformation.
 
Maybe French econony and geopolitics were oriented towards Northern Europe but, since France is Romance-speaking, culture definitely wasn't.
They're is more to culture then simply language. At the end of the day cultural influence is about to exchange for ideas and France was increasingly transitioning from the italian influence of the time of the Italian Wars toward being turned more to the Low Countries, Germany, and, to a lesser extent, England at that time.

The Reconquista had been finished in Portugal for a long time, by the time of the Protestant Reformation.
Be that as it may, it did change play an important role in shaping portugese society and culture and therefore can, and most likely indeed did, have effects long after it was over, even if only indirectly.
 
Let's not forget the influence of the Swiss Reformation right next door, being in the same intellectual and commercial circles as the urban, merchantile, and intellectual circles as their French counterparts. There's a reason the Hugonaughts were more Reformed than Lutheran in influence.
 
Someone who is French is better qualified to speak on this matter; but, I have heard that the south of France has always been culturally different from the north and people of that region see themselves as being separate from northerners.
Religious differences are often a manifestation of political and cultural separations. It makes sense that a people who did not see themselves as represented by, even oppressed by, the Catholic government in Paris would be attracted to a dissenting religion.
The same region became the center of the Cathars and Waldensians 300 years earlier and the later group was still represented there in the XVI century.
 
Remember that Calvin was a Frenchman, who fled just outside the country (Geneva). From there he trained many pastors who then founded congregations in France. Just as Luther found a strong audience among his fellow Germans, perhaps French people were more willing to hear Calvin's message. Also, Jeanne d'Albret adopted Protestantism and made it the state religion of Navarre. So there were two significant influences right at the borders of the kingdom.

It's possible that some in the south saw it as a way of protesting royal authority. A possible link between Catharism and Protestantism is interesting. But Protestantism also had a lot of adherents in the west and parts of the north, notably Normandy.
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Protestantism in the form of the Reformed Church also spread to Hungary. It was strongest in the area of Turkish occupation where the counter-reformation policy of the Habsburgs couldn't be enforced.

Poland is not in Southern Europe but it is not usually grouped with Northern Europe either -- In Poland the Protestant Polish Brethren, who developed Socinianism based on the doctrine of the Italian Fausto Sozzini, prospered for about a century before they were expelled.
 
I would tend to be sceptical of the idea of any link between Catharism and French Protestantism as, even discounting the beacheads Protestantism made in Northern France (as one could argue that some Dualist sects where likewise present in Northern in the High Middle age), the geographic discrepencies are simply too large.

Catharism never made any serious headway in Gascony, appart for Quercy and Agenais who where culturally and politically linked to the Languedoc during this era, let alone north of the Loire in Poitou and Saintonge, while both regions where central to french Protestantism. Protestantism also managed to establish a presence in Provence and in the Rhone Valley while Catharism never did.

On the other side of the equation, the Lauragais and the Toulousain, who had once been the homes of strong Cathar churches, where pillars of the power of the Catholic League in Southern France during the French Wars of Religion. Catharism also managed to establish some presence in Catalonia, while Protestantism never took off anywhere in the Iberian Peninsula.
 
Protestantism did enter other southern European areas. There were early protestants in Venice, Ferrara, the university of Padua. But they vanished again because of the succesfull Catholic Reformation (that includes persecutions by the inquisition). Even Savaronella could be considered a protestant. In Spain as a consequence of the reconquista and the experience of persecution of the Morisco's the church was succesfull from the beginning to keep the ideas out.
In France protestantism got a chance because Francois I did sympathize in the beginning, and what is important for it's long survival is that many nobles converted to the religion. When the King finally changed his position, this meant that there was stil protection against persecution in certain areas.
In fact there are still protestants in Italy. Although there were occasional persecutions in the time of the wars of religion, Waldensers managed to survive in certain valleys in Piedmont, protected by the Savoyard rulers, who probably found it too much bother too constantly surpress them (These valleys are quite difficult to reach.)

This has nothing to do with culture or turning it's eye to the north, but all with politics and the strenght and the will of the state to lay down it's religion.
 
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Remember that Calvin was a Frenchman, who fled just outside the country (Geneva). From there he trained many pastors who then founded congregations in France. Just as Luther found a strong audience among his fellow Germans, perhaps French people were more willing to hear Calvin's message. Also, Jeanne d'Albret adopted Protestantism and made it the state religion of Navarre. So there were two significant influences right at the borders of the kingdom.

It's possible that some in the south saw it as a way of protesting royal authority. A possible link between Catharism and Protestantism is interesting. But Protestantism also had a lot of adherents in the west and parts of the north, notably Normandy.

Good point about the existing French connection to Calvinism. Also remember that the Jansenists were close to Calvinists in some way, so there may have been reasons why these sets of ideas were attractive in France during that time period.
 
They're is more to culture then simply language. At the end of the day cultural influence is about to exchange for ideas and France was increasingly transitioning from the italian influence of the time of the Italian Wars toward being turned more to the Low Countries, Germany, and, to a lesser extent, England at that time.


Be that as it may, it did change play an important role in shaping portugese society and culture and therefore can, and most likely indeed did, have effects long after it was over, even if only indirectly.

This would be more compelling if you could explain why "Northern/Atlantic" culture tended towards Protestantism. I struggle to see how France is more this way than Portugal.
 
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