Why did Native Americans never develop ironworking?

I will only speak of metallurgy in Europe and the Americas, as speaking of Africa and Asia would only make the explanation more complicated and challenging, even if it’s really interesting.

Metallurgy is highly complex. In order to make a metal weapon or tool you would need to know how, and figuring out that you can mine the earth, take certain rocks, heat and purify them and then shape them, which isn't something that's easy to figure out.

Copper was used from 5000 BC in North America. Knives, fishhooks and bracelets were made. The Great Lakes, Northeast, and Mississippian culture areas valued and produced it. Copper shield-like items were used in the Pacific Northwest as a marker of status and wealth. All of them worked naturally occurring metal deposits, but did not smelt iron or practice bronze metallurgy.

To make bronze, you need to mix copper and tin. Europe & Asia Minor had copper & tin in relative proximity, so bronze could be discovered by the accidental mixing of the two, and then further developed. So no tin, no bronze. No bronze, probably no easy path to ironworking.

Before you say it, I know that arsenical bronze did exist and was the predominant alloy in Ecuador and north and central Peru, co-existing with tin bronze from central and southern Andes or Bolivia during the Inca Empire.

There are few tin deposits in North America (outside of Alaska), and most of them are not workable without at least 19th century mining technology. Further south, the only known exploitable source of tin during ancient times is located in the Zacatecas tin province of north central Mexico which supplied west Mexican cultures with enough tin for bronze production. Moving to the south again, tin deposits exist in many parts of South America, with minor deposits in southern Peru, Colombia, Brazil, and northwestern Argentina, and major deposits of exploitable cassiterite in northern Bolivia. These deposits were exploited as early as 1000 AD in the manufacture of tin bronze by Andean cultures, including the later Inca Empire.

Southern civilizations had some metallurgical capabilities developed on their own and inherited from predecessors in that area, but neither they, nor any group in the Americas had yet gotten to the point of producing enough tin and copper to equip large armies with bronze weapons. Bronze was mostly seen as an expensive substitute for the equally efficient stone.

The only exception is the Inca, but Andean people saw metal in a fundamentally different way from Europeans. Metal was a material of symbolic, religious importance. Using it for utilitarian purposes was wasteful. To be sure, there were bronze weapons and other tools, but these were always elite, symbolic objects. Technically, the Inca did finally produce metal/bronze weapons en masse for their troops, but it occurred post-contact.

Another reason why North Americans weren’t as advanced in metallurgy was also because there was a lack of population density. Cahokia, Mississippian culture, may have reached a population of over 20,000. It was the biggest city in precolumbian North America. There was a much smaller population and a smaller density of population in North America, which meant that there was less people who could innovate and discover things. For example, just to illustrate my point, let’s say that for every 100 people there is going to be 1 person who is intelligent, skilled, and lucky enough to make a breakthrough innovation or discovery. Then a population of 1,000 people will have 10 of those kinds of people, while a population of 10,000 will have 100 of those kinds of people.

Smelted iron is also a bigger leap, as iron ore does not in any meaningful way resemble usable iron. Just knowing you can turn it into a useful metal for tools was a leap and for this leap, you need previous knowledge in metallurgy. All of the civilizations that produced iron had a working knowledge of how to smelt other metals using high temperatures and hammering to create tools and weapons. Except the Inca, most Native Americans would have no reason to believe that iron was even capable of being smelted, as none of the kilns or furnaces they used got to temperatures hot enough for that.

There was also no “Silk Road” in North America, which was a huge source of innovations and ideas. Smelting of ores and production of bronze and other copper alloys developed in the Andes and spread to Mesoamerica, but not further due to a lack of trade with the north.

Mesoamericans and Incas both used armor, which most other tribes didn’t, but they used quilted cotton or compressed fiber armor. Some cultures also had armors made from carefully arranged pieces of wood, sometimes laminated or made of boiled leather which is the most common sort of armor worldwide for millennia. Archeologists never found any bronze or iron armors in Southern or Mesoamerica, a bronze or iron armor was not suited to the environment and Conquistadores later suffered from exhaustion and heatstroke.

Culturally, most civilizations developed iron militarily and used it to produce weapons that would be longer lasting and not easy to break, but Mesoamerican and North American warfare didn't need that. Heavy infantry didn’t become common and large pitched battles were a rarity, as warfare relied on projectile weapons. No arms race occurred in favor of metallurgy.

Wood clubs studded with obsidian or flint were as practical and sturdy as any bronze or iron weapons and far cheaper and simpler to make in quantity. They were enough to defeat their pre-conquest opponents. The native tribes adapted to the use of armor and steel weapons, most directly the Incas, as the wars against Spanish conquest lasted.

You need a lot of POD’s to have North American natives discover bronze and thus iron.
 
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Because they used platinum (which has a higher melting point than iron) and red gold instead. Also, some did use iron. Olmecs had a kind of iron mirrors while certain Native Americans in the north used meteoric iron. Unpopular opinion, but I don't think Native Americans were really behind in metallurgy. What they were behind in was in having a fleet to better engage Europeans (only Caribs did, winning the opprobrium of Europeans as a result). Not that different from the Balkan Europeans in the 14th and 15th centuries, who got conquered by the Ottomans from the sea with almost no naval battle to stop the Ottomans from landing. The Ottomans conquered a territory roughly the size of Central America, not counting vassals, tributaries and territories they held for a short time (but as we're told, Eastern Europeans are "not true Europeans!").
 
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Because they used platinum (which has a higher melting point than iron) and red gold instead. Also, some did use iron. Olmecs had a kind of iron mirrors while certain Native Americans in the north used meteoric iron. Unpopular opinion, but I don't think Native Americans were really behind in metallurgy. What they were behind in was in having a fleet to better engage Europeans (only Caribs did, winning the opprobrium of Europeans as a result). Not that different from the Balkan Europeans in the 14th and 15th centuries, who got conquered by the Ottomans from the sea with almost no naval battle to stop the Ottomans from landing. The Ottomans conquered a territory roughly the size of Central America, not counting vassals, tributaries and territories they held for a short time (but as we're told, Eastern Europeans are "not true Europeans!").
That really doesn't make sense to be honest, if iron was so useless why did everyone adopt in relative short notice?
 
That really doesn't make sense to be honest, if iron was so useless why did everyone adopt in relative short notice?
Because iron in Europe and Asia is more available, it's not because iron is really that much better than bronze. At no point in European and Asian history did any iron army actually impose itself over a bronze one.
 
Because iron in Europe and Asia is more available, it's not because iron is really that much better than bronze. At no point in European and Asian history did any iron army actually impose itself over a bronze one.
Because it didn't need to, adoption was pretty quick anyway, which reiterates the first point, I don't think iron is any less available in the New world.
 
Because it didn't need to, adoption was pretty quick anyway, which reiterates the first point, I don't think iron is any less available in the New world.
But copper, gold and silver are. Spaniards noted gold and silver were everywhere. No European or Asian (or African for that matter, which curiously jumped the copper and bronze ages) culture used gold and silver to the same extent. Platinum was in the south. Even Mapuches used platinum.
 
But copper, gold and silver are. Spaniards noted gold and silver were everywhere. No European or Asian (or African for that matter, which curiously jumped the copper and bronze ages) culture used gold and silver to the same extent. Platinum was in the south. Even Mapuches used platinum.
Gold is a soft metal and copper obviously is not as good as iron and bronze, silver I don't know but I don't think it's as useful either given it's also soft..

Also how widespread was platinum really? Being relative more present in the America doesn't change anything about it's absolute rarity.
 
Unpopular opinion, but I don't think Native Americans were really behind in metallurgy.
Even if we assume that platinum is a valid substitute for steel (which it isn't) they were still very far behind in terms of the sophistication of what they were making with it, as well as in their ability to produce things from it in sufficient numbers.

What they were behind in was in having a fleet to better engage Europeans (only Caribs did, winning the opprobrium of Europeans as a result).
Oh? How many gun decks did the largest ship in the Taino navy have?

who got conquered by the Ottomans from the sea with almost no naval battle to stop the Ottomans from landing.
Oh? Do tell of the naval landing that enabled the conquest of Bulgaria, Serbia, and Hungary.

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Olmecs had a kind of iron mirrors
Polished iron ore is very different from forging or smelting it.

certain Native Americans in the north used meteoric iron.
Yes, which they carved. Also not true iron working.
 
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Even if we assume that platinum is a valid substitute for steel (which it isn't) they were still very far behind in terms of the sophistication of what they were making with it, as well as in their ability to produce things from it in sufficient numbers.
Platinum might be scratchable but it's still durable, but it's still far too rare.
 
Last I checked, didn't the Inuit develop ironworking? (From meteorites?)

From what I understand working high grade almost pure iron from meteorites is pretty much a completely different deal from processing raw typical grade iron ore and smelting it into something that can be used. I believe high grade meteorite iron has a much lower melting point then the type of heat needed for smelting iron ore. Making small pieces of meteorite iron into something more useful has been done numerous times across the world on a small scale by peoples who couldn't process Earthly Iron ore.

The problem with making anything more then small scale ceremonial use of meteorite iron is obviously because meteorites don't grow on trees.

From what I understand the bronze that New World people's were using by 1492 was arsenic bronze rather then the more typical worldwide Tin/Copper Bronze.
 
Because they used platinum (which has a higher melting point than iron) and red gold instead. Also, some did use iron. Olmecs had a kind of iron mirrors while certain Native Americans in the north used meteoric iron. Unpopular opinion, but I don't think Native Americans were really behind in metallurgy. What they were behind in was in having a fleet to better engage Europeans (only Caribs did, winning the opprobrium of Europeans as a result). Not that different from the Balkan Europeans in the 14th and 15th centuries, who got conquered by the Ottomans from the sea with almost no naval battle to stop the Ottomans from landing. The Ottomans conquered a territory roughly the size of Central America, not counting vassals, tributaries and territories they held for a short time (but as we're told, Eastern Europeans are "not true Europeans!").

This is a strange opinion to say the least. I think it's pretty universally agreed that Mesoamericans were behind the old war in terms of metallurgy in a number of ways.
 
From what I understand the bronze that New World people's were using by 1492 was arsenic bronze rather then the more typical worldwide Tin/Copper Bronze.
They used both. The bronze-working cultures in western Mesoamerica and the Andes are near some of the few sources of tin in the New World.
 
There was also no “Silk Road” in North America, which was a huge source of innovations and ideas. Smelting of ores and production of bronze and other copper alloys developed in the Andes and spread to Mesoamerica, but
Is there a way to develop such a trade lane? Or rather, develop it further, because im pretty sure that the North Americans weren't completely out of contact with their southern neighbors.
 

Kaze

Banned
The only flaw in creation of iron is warfare.... Let me set this out - most of native warfare was tribe vs tribe, it was rarely empire vs empire. To make the leap from stone -> bronze, you need an empire of several villages as well as competition with other empires with several villages. To make the leap from bronze to iron - the empire of villages have more villages and competition with an existing bronze-level (or stone level) empire on the borderlands.

The closest one that I could see making the tech leap are :

1. Maya
2. Aztec
3. Mississippian
4. Inca
5. The Adobe builders of the South West
6. hypothetical cold war between the above 5.

but they will need competition with another empire to really spur on development. War often spurs military and tech leaps.
 
From other posts in this thread, it seems that:
  1. iron working requires knowledge and experience gained from bronze working (eg to know that heating rocks melts out something you can use and how to purify it)
  2. bronze working requires easily accessible copper and tin near each other and the ability to melt them
  3. the ability to melt copper and tin comes from having high temperature kilns used initially for eg pottery
  4. most cultures at this time and place had limited access to copper, and what they had was so pure it didn't need smelting, so they never developed bronze - plus they didn't have easy access to tin, and according to the other poster above, most didn't use closed high temperature kilns.
Basically, the magic formula wasn't there. Even had it been, theyre not cheek by jowl and pushed for resources.

FWIW, as a comparator my understanding is that early iron smelted after the bronze Age Collapse in the Med was low grade and began to be made because the trade routes for copper and tin had collapsed; it was only later it became refined enough to have a clear advantage (bronze dulls less easily and corrodes far less, for instance). It was sheer luck that the circumstances for its development arose - necessity, plus a long period where it had to be refined (in the levant/ed, elsewhere is different with different factors). That's just not the case here.
 
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