I would have said French. They were a popular option until 1905 and the German and US ships were garbage in the same period.Japan would have turned to another power for ships and training, probably Germany.
I would have said French. They were a popular option until 1905 and the German and US ships were garbage in the same period.Japan would have turned to another power for ships and training, probably Germany.
Presumably Armstrong would not have been permitted to sell warships to Russia, but IDK.
The Japanese bought a cruiser off the French that was lost without trace on its delivery voyage. The IJN went cold on French design and construction after that.As France was aligned with Russia , would that be another reason for the Japanese no longer to favor France?
Is there a Source for this?
Do you have more sources for that claim? Because I can't find anything on the internet to back that claim up and if it's only coming from one source, I would be inclined to think it's wrong.The Clash: US- Japanese Relations Throughout History by Walter LaFeber.
As in the case of the OP, Bridge commands were given in English on IJN warships until the late 1920’s and early 30’s.
Which claim? Adopting English during the modernisation phase or English being spoken on IJN ship bridges?Do you have more sources for that claim?
The claim of making English their first language. That seems to extreme to have been seriously considered. It's one thing to make it a technical language in a certain field, but to have it be made the first language for the whole nation, as you seem to imply, sounds very wild. Like the myth of the US having made almost made German it's official language. I don't trust the author to have been an accurate authority on Japan as I have been reading reviews of the book and they both mention that he tends to make generalizations about Japanese culture. Truth be told, the only way I'd believe a statement as wild as the idea of Japan having almost made English a first language is if it came from a Japanese primary source, or at least from someone who I definitely can see is an expert on Japanese language and who studies the culture and history. And when I mean the "internet" I mean I can't find anything that mentions the idea of English being considered for Japan's first language. If such a thing was seriously considered, I'd think I'd find it mentioned more often, but in a semi quick search, I find nothing on that. And if it's only found in a single book by a person who's field of expertise is not specifically on Japanese culture or language or history, then I can't find myself so willingly to accept their words as fact.Which claim? Adopting English during the modernisation phase or English being spoken on IJN ship bridges?
I'm sorry you'd put more value in 'the internet' over a history book written by one of America's most eminent Historians. Unfortunately most US-Japanese history focuses on 2 dates and the 1338 days in between when there is 150 years of between Japan and the US. The bulk of that history in the diplomatic realm in the State Department not the War Department. Maybe it's 'the internet' that's wrong, or written by people who don't read very widely or only enjoy history between Dec 7 1941 and Aug 6 1945.
English was necessary for the IJN, here is an example of a 1920's era ship design by Japanese designers trained in the UK and Europe. Note that its all in English.
http://gazo.dl.itc.u-tokyo.ac.jp/hiraga2014/images/large/21540602/21540602-002_001.jpg
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Japan has just seen what the European Powers do to “uppity” Asians during the Boxer Rebellion.
To add to this,they weren't European, but the Japanese literally were one of the powers beating up the Chinese.I lived in Japan for a year and a half, in a fairly rural area where most people didn't have sophisticated views. There's a lot to like about Japan, but don't ignore their strong sense of national identity. In particular, I think you're making a mistake by assuming they would look at the Boxer Rebellion and think any of that applied to them. They're far more likely to identify with the European powers beating up the Chinese than they are with the "Asians". That goes double for the period we're talking about - remember that they are "the Yamato race", directly descended from the gods, and with a literal deity sitting on their throne. Of course the Chinese got defeated, it was their destiny to be so just like it was Japan's destiny to rule!
It might sound silly, but people really thought that way, and to an extent still do.
There was a long term alternative which was to wait to seek a US alliance in the Pacific. Until the 20s, Britain saw the IJN as a better option.Japan could support a Fleet large enough to counter the Russians and Germans in the Pacific. Australia, Canada and New Zealand combined couldn't and the US wasn't interested in foreign entanglements. Japan was really the only available option other than funding a second Royal Navy for the Pacific.
And wrong. Uncle Sam should be in there.![]()
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This one is always popular.
The claim of making English their first language. That seems to extreme to have been seriously considered. It's one thing to make it a technical language in a certain field, but to have it be made the first language for the whole nation, as you seem to imply, sounds very wild. Like the myth of the US having made almost made German it's official language.
So you wont read the book but will read reviews... Do the reviewers have Bancroft prizes for History?I don't trust the author to have been an accurate authority on Japan as I have been reading reviews of the book and they both mention that he tends to make generalizations about Japanese culture.
Truth be told, the only way I'd believe a statement as wild as the idea of Japan having almost made English a first language is if it came from a Japanese primary source, or at least from someone who I definitely can see is an expert on Japanese language and who studies the culture and history.
The Japanese writing system was the target of criticism and reform during the latter half of the 19th century. In order to implement a coherent education, some like Mori Arinori suggested adopting English; others like Nanbu Yoshikazu proposed the adoption of the Latin alphabet and the abolition of Chinese characters. This paper shows that, contrary to the image that everything has changed in Japan within a few years around the Meiji Restoration (1868), from the initial debates of the late-Edo, it has taken over forty years to see the Japanese language unshackled from Chinese, yet without being destroyed and transformed into English, and for the building blocks of a “national language” (kokugo) to emerge.
Did GB not simply think that it was impossible to get US to agree to an alliance, not that it would not be preferable to a Japanese one?There was a long term alternative which was to wait to seek a US alliance in the Pacific. Until the 20s, Britain saw the IJN as a better option.
It took Europeans a long time to realize that the XX century was going to be the American Century, and Britain was probably the last to understand just how large is the difference between Great Power and Superpower.
IMO they regarded th US a bigger more credible threat than Japan. An alliance with Japan was directed primaraly against Russian but had a secondary role as generating an "offshore balancer" against US expansion in the Pacific.Did GB not simply think that it was impossible to get US to agree to an alliance, not that it would not be preferable to a Japanese one?
The US was supposed to join the League of Nations (reasonable as it was a US idea in the first place) and be engaged with the rest of the world.Did GB not simply think that it was impossible to get US to agree to an alliance, not that it would not be preferable to a Japanese one?
And wrong. Uncle Sam should be in there.
China is where US "Open Door" internacional capitalism first clashed with tradicional imperialism. Seeing it as just Europeans slicing the cake is reductive. The US was about to prove that they could eat the cake and have it.