Why chariots suddenly disappear during middle ages

Using wagons on the battlefield is at least early medieval and possibly Iron Age, mostly by the horse pastoralists. The use of the war wagon did not die out in Eastern Europe until well into the 17th c. with a few late uses beyond that.

This was because Russia and Poland and such are flat and open and it's easy for a cavalry force or even an infantry force to avoid artillery emplacements, but infantry on the march still needs something to protect it from cavalry, hence the war wagons.

In the West there were 1. pikemen 2. the land was way more managed with a lot more canals, stone walls dividing fields, hedges etc. which cause problems for war wagon movement.

That said war wagons were used in the German Peasants' War and the League artillery blew them to little bits, so if the wagons can't avoid the guns, the wagons lose.
 
Chariots are more limited tactically than horse cavalry, you need pretty flat wide open spaces to deploy them, and in moving between battlefields they take more "open" areas (roads etc) than horses. Also, for the "price" of a chariot you get several cavalrymen and their equipment - a chariot takes time and money to build and maintain.

You get more bang for your buck with cavalry than you do with chariots - and that decided things.
 
When talking about chariots and their use and disappearance, you have to consider that chariots filled three different tactical roles. These were not all used by cultures that fielded chariots, and they did not become obsolete at the same time.

1. Shock: The chariot acts in the manner of heavy cavalry and engages in melee with enemy troops. Examples: Hittite 3-man chariots, scythed chariots fielded by Persians and others.
2. Archery Platform: The chariot acts in the manner of horse archers, acting as a mobile firing platform. Examples: Egyptian New Kingdom, probably Mitanni and others.
3. Battle Taxi: The chariot is not a fighting platform at all (or at least not primarily), but rather is used to move warriors to/from a battlefield. Examples: Myceneans, Iron Age/Classical Celtic peoples.

The heyday of the chariot is probably best placed around the 13th century, because that's the century of the iconic Battle of Kadesh, the battle that was for chariots what Kursk was for tanks. At that point you see the "Shock" and "Archery Platform" roles fully developed; in particular, the Hittites favored a heavier chariot in which melee was prioritized over archery, while the Egyptian chariot tended to be lighter, faster, and exclusively for ranged shooting.

The Archery Platform role was the first to become obsolete. The main reason for this is the development of cavalry. To be fair to the chariot, it does have some qualitative advantage over a horse archer - the archer can potentially use a longer bow and can shoot in any direction regardless of where the vehicle is headed. That advantage, however, came with a substantial relative cost. A horse archer brings a bow to bear for the cost of only one man and one horse; a chariot does the same at the cost of two men, two horses, and of course the chariot itself. The math is pretty clear on this one, even if we don't bother to look at the other drawbacks of a chariot (performance on terrain, fragility, and other things people have already mentioned). Historically the adoption of the horse archer meant the end of the "archery platform" role. That's not to say nobody ever carried a bow on a chariot ever again, but that archery was no longer a reason to build and field chariotry.

Around the time of the Bronze Age collapse, the chariot as an archery platform may have been going obsolete for tactical reasons as well. Chariots were often fielded with "chariot runners," light infantry who ran along to accompany the chariot. Nomadic and pastoral peoples on the fringes of the powerful settled states were often selected for this role; their lifestyle presumably provided them with the necessary athletics. Towards the end of the age, however, you get substantial influxes of new nomadic peoples, now increasingly armed with iron, and as it turns out "chariot runners" when armed with javelins could also be pretty proficient "chariot killers." The development of a better "counter" for chariots in general, of both the archery and shock variety, may well have started their downfall even before horse archery became widespread, and even in places where horse archery never became common.

The Shock role lingered on for a while longer, but it was severely attenuated. A chariot offers an attractively large bit of mass to throw around, but the cost and fragility means throwing them around is likely to lead to a costly wreck. The Hittites seem to have dealt with with this issue, but the armaments of the time and the terrain of their homeland may have contributed to what seems to have been an effective shock chariot force. The "scythed chariot" was a much later attempt to utilize this mass in an otherwise unfavorable environment by armoring and arming (with scythes!) the vehicle and team, but without much efficacy. The Persians, bless their hearts, kept this chariot role on life support for a while, but with the demonstrated defeat of scythed chariots and the increasing sophistication of heavy cavalry, it too eventually dies. The stirrup really has nothing to do with it.

Which leaves us with the Battle Taxi. Any chariot, of course, can be a taxi, but it's only a taxi primarily when it can't fulfill other potential combat roles. This was probably the primary way the Myceneans used theirs - their home terrain wasn't great for the other roles, or for horses in general - and it is the role in which the chariot survived in Celtic societies into the Roman era, most famously in Britain.

Chariots are intrinsically upper-class vehicles because of their expense, so in the battle-taxi role the chariot is primarily a taxi for the elite (perhaps "battle-limousine" is more apt). You would not bring a whole army to the field in chariots, but you might take the noblemen that way. For that reason it's not much of a rapid-deployment device - you can only rapidly deploy a very small proportion of your force. It becomes more of a status thing: "I get driven to battle, I don't need to walk." (It's also great for running away, as having a chariot and driver waiting to pick you up if the battle goes south makes your survival odds much better than the common footslogger.) This association with status is the reason this role is the last to die - at this point the chariot has become a symbol of prestige and power rather than an actual weapon of war. It doesn't need to be efficient; inefficiency is the whole point.

This is not to say that Classical-era Celtic or Bronze-era Mycenean chariot-users never fought from their chariots; on the contrary, they almost certainly did. Without the resources of Egypt or Hatti to field huge chariot divisions, however, the chariot only dabbles in a true combat role. The king can show everyone his prowess in javelin-throwing from his chariot, but chariot-thrown javelins are not going to be a deciding factor in the battle.

A big caveat to all this is that I know next to nothing about Indian warfare - I couldn't tell you what the history of chariot roles was there.


As for Total War, "Rome: Total War" got their chariot roles very wrong, but to be fair, the battle-taxi role - the main role of the chariot in the Roman era - was not one they could have used (the RTW engine didn't allow you to "dismount" your charioteers). So instead, they put their chariots in the other combat roles, gave them anachronistically to factions that had abandoned them (looking at you, Egypt), or increased their viability to make them something other than the laughingstocks they actually were (scythed chariots). I haven't played the new Rome and couldn't tell you if they did any better.
 
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3. Battle Taxi: The chariot is not a fighting platform at all (or at least not primarily), but rather is used to move warriors to/from a battlefield. Examples: Myceneans, Iron Age/Classical Celtic peoples.

Actually, it seems that Brittons (the only Celts to widely use chariots, AFIK) used these both as archery and mounted infantry, at least according to Caesar.

As for Myceneans, it's possible that Homer simply didn't get the purpose of their chariots : some depictions could point the presence of archery and/or shock tactics rather than "battle taxi" or at least not exclusively so.

I haven't played the new Rome and couldn't tell you if they did any better.
Arguably better, I've more issues with Atilla actually.
 
Take a look at the description of medieval horses. Destriers,chargers,palfreys and more variety. Medieval war horses were bigger than what were used in antiquity. And yes, the widespread use of the saddle and stirrup helped somewhat.
 
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Saphroneth

Banned
Take a look at the description of medieval horses. Destriers,chargers,palfreys and more variety. Medieval war horses were bigger than what was used in antiquity. And yes, the widespread use of the saddle and stirrup helped somewhat.

Indeed, part of an ongoing trend. Horse breeding was an ongoing process and indeed still is.
 
Actually, it seems that Brittons (the only Celts to widely use chariots, AFIK) used these both as archery and mounted infantry, at least according to Caesar.

Caesar specifically describes them as throwing weapons, entering melee, and then jumping out to fight on foot. To me, this suggests that "battle taxi" is the primary role, because if either shock or archery were more prominent, there would be no reason to disembark; that's not something the Egyptians or Hittites seem to have done regularly, for instance. From what I've read this seems to be the scholarly consensus as well, but with few accounts to go on it's hard to say reliably.

A better source for non-taxi Celtic chariots is actually from the continent. In the Battle of Sentinum (295 BC) in Italy, the Samnites had Gallic allies who used war chariots against the Romans. According to Livy, the chariots charged into the Roman cavalry and terrified the horses, thus routing the cavalry; there's no mention of dismounting IIRC. "Cavalry shock" seems like a fairly novel use of the chariot compared to the other roles, but aside from this success it doesn't seem to pop up that often. The final appearance of chariots on the continent is at Telamon (225 BC), but they're really just mentioned. After that point, use in any capacity seems to have been restricted to Britain.

As for Myceneans, it's possible that Homer simply didn't get the purpose of their chariots : some depictions could point the presence of archery and/or shock tactics rather than "battle taxi" or at least not exclusively so.
Yeah, that's still controversial. I think the best argument for the dominance of the "taxi" role is that chariots just don't seem to be shown being used in warfare at the same rate they are in, say, Egyptian art; they do portray warriors in chariots, but for a few exceptions, not fighting from them. Even ignoring Homer entirely, there's virtually no evidence for the "archery platform" role, and not a whole lot for the "shock" role. Given the apparent Mycenean emphasis on heavily-armored infantry, a taxi for armored warriors seems like a sensible use. (Certainly if I was wearing something like the Dendra panoply, I'd want to be driven to the battle!)

Arguably better, I've more issues with Atilla actually.
Looks pretty decent, actually. Maybe they took a hint from Europa Barbarorum?
 
(Certainly if I was wearing something like the Dendra panoply, I'd want to be driven to the battle!)

I've heard some magnificent arguments that the Dendra panoply was meant to be used by the chariot driver rather than the man he was driving, due to severe mobility restrictions in the reconstructions of the armour.

That might imply the charioteer stuck around while fighting was ongoing to ferry his partner out of there if need be, or that the chariot itself was a battle unit.

Ultimately it's very hard to say.
 
Caesar specifically describes them as throwing weapons, entering melee, and then jumping out to fight on foot. To me, this suggests that "battle taxi" is the primary role
I'm not sure : it looks rather as a skirmisher use, not unlike posterior mounted bowmen/crossbowmen; but arguably sources are are.

A better source for non-taxi Celtic chariots is actually from the continent. In the Battle of Sentinum (295 BC) in Italy
Fair point.

I think the best argument for the dominance of the "taxi" role is that chariots just don't seem to be shown being used in warfare at the same rate they are in, say, Egyptian art; they do portray warriors in chariots, but for a few exceptions, not fighting from them.
That said, Mycenaean chariots were quickly heavier and more robust than their Near-East counterparts, while it asked for more resources. It could hint to a more shock approach, especially when the art you're mentioning looks like this. I mean, it's pretty straightforward.

Even ignoring Homer entirely, there's virtually no evidence for the "archery platform" role
What about this? It's only one depiction, granted, but why ignoring it completely?

Given the apparent Mycenaean emphasis on heavily-armored infantry, a taxi for armored warriors seems like a sensible use. (Certainly if I was wearing something like the Dendra panoply, I'd want to be driven to the battle!)
But heavy armour doesn't systematically mean infantry, medieval heavy cavalry is a good example.

Looks pretty decent, actually. Maybe they took a hint from Europa Barbarorum?
Maybe, but there's still issues : basically, the old problem of representation Germans as "typically" Germans, Huns as proto-Mongols, etc. This kind of ethnic unification doesn't makes sense historically and a bit ruined my fun.

I understand that most people wouldn't care, giving for the strategy part, but I can't help but think of it as "Kossina : Total War".
 
I'm not sure : it looks rather as a skirmisher use, not unlike posterior mounted bowmen/crossbowmen; but arguably sources are are.

"Sources are rare" might as well be the subtitle for this topic, unfortunately. I admit that any view, including mine, is based on speculation derived from very thin evidence. As I said earlier, however, "battle-taxi" being a primary role doesn't preclude the use of the chariot as a fighting platform; one can certainly throw/shoot/fight from the chariot before disembarking. Nevertheless, if one disembarks, it seems to me that's a representation of a more taxi-oriented role than Bronze Age chariotry, or even Iron Age chariotry as observed among the continental Gauls (though the recorded instances of this are very rare).

That said, Mycenaean chariots were quickly heavier and more robust than their Near-East counterparts, while it asked for more resources. It could hint to a more shock approach, especially when the art you're mentioning looks like this. I mean, it's pretty straightforward.
Everything I've read on the topic suggests that there was an evolution in Mycenean chariotry from heavy and more Hittite-like box chariots towards lighter models. That could very well imply a shock role, particularly early on. It may also, however, reflect simply that the cultures the Myceneans acquired the technology from were using such chariots; the fact that a chariot design is potentially suited for shock doesn't necessarily mean that they were preserved in that role. Perhaps the evolution of the Myceanean chariot into lighter forms represents the paring down of an acquired design to a design that better reflected how the chariot was used in indigenous warfare. Nevertheless, I'm perfectly willing to consider that the Myceneans may have used their chariots regularly in a shock role early on; there's insufficient evidence to simply dismiss it, obviously.

What about this? It's only one depiction, granted, but why ignoring it completely?
That's a hunting scene, not a war scene. Critically, what I've been talking about so far has been the main uses of chariots in war. I certainly don't deny that it was possible to use a bow from a Mycenean chariot. Obviously some Myceaneans did it, probably even in war. We are talking about hundreds of years of history, after all, and surely they were aware of the existence of chariot archery. I stick to my statement, however, that we have "virtually no" evidence for the use of the chariot in an "archery platform" role (specifically, a combat role) by the Myceneans.

But heavy armour doesn't systematically mean infantry, medieval heavy cavalry is a good example.
True. I don't think there's enough evidence to suggest that Mycenean armor was worn chiefly by chariot-borne warriors, but you're correct that the armor need not imply infantry warfare on its own.

Maybe, but there's still issues : basically, the old problem of representation Germans as "typically" Germans, Huns as proto-Mongols, etc. This kind of ethnic unification doesn't makes sense historically and a bit ruined my fun.
I haven't played RTW2, so I couldn't say. In general, however, CA presumably has other priorities aside from historical accuracy, like creating "interesting" (visually and tactically), iconic, and varied unit rosters. "New Kingdom Ptolemies" in RTW1 was pretty egregious, but their argument of the developers was essentially "nobody wants yet another phalanx faction." For many of their customers that may well have been true, but clearly they reconsidered that stance for RTW2.
 

jahenders

Banned
BTW, for those interested in chariots, you might watch the Nova documentary "Building the Pharaoh's Chariot" (available on Netflix). They talked about some detailed specifics of the Egyptian chariot and built a pretty cool replica of one used by Thutmose.
 
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