Why are Occitans and Portuguese too Anglophilic

From what I read, the Occitans and Portuguese tend to have better thinking about the Plantagenets, for some Occitans the loss of the Plantagenets in the Hundred Years was a bad thing, what is the reason for this?
 
From what I read, the Occitans and Portuguese tend to have better thinking about the Plantagenets, for some Occitans the loss of the Plantagenets in the Hundred Years was a bad thing, what is the reason for this?

The Anglo-Portuguese relations where historically strong even with I think a marriage and alliance back then, as for the Occitans, probably the fact a foreign language would be enforced on them, like with what had happened with the French.
 
Occitans saw the french (franks) as the real enemy because they stole occitania of her (althought it never happened) independence.
The french supported and were allies of Castille, a country that tried to conquer portugal multiple times only to get their ass kicked multiple times, so it was natural that Portugal turned to their enemies' friend's enemies, England.
 
For Occitans it was somewhat of an Enemy of my Enemy towards the Franks that led them into being friendly with the English ... and probably the fact (even if perhaps not consciously so except with the highest ranked and most intelligent) that the language differences between Occitan and Middle English was so much more pronounced, than between Old French and Occitan, which would mean that English would have a much harder time to compete and slowly take over as the 'right' Language, instead of merely being the prestige language
 
For the Occitan its probably a mental mix up between the Albigensian crusades where, in fire and blood, the french destroyed the truly independant state (if not dejure most definitely defacto). During the albigensian crusades the english did their best to prevent the destruction of the Toulousain state, without success.

Admitedly, they are two different conflicts but both the Hundred years wars and the english support of the house of Toulouse where both caused by franco-english rivalries in Aquitaine so the mix-up is understandable. That being said, the political destiny had already been decided since a long time at the beguining of the Hundred Years wars.
 
During the albigensian crusades the english did their best to prevent the destruction of the Toulousain state, without success.

Was England significantly involved in the Albigensian Crusade? I knew Aragon backed the House of Toulouse but I didn't think England played much of a part.

As far as Aquitaine is concerned, the Plantagenets were distant rulers, maintaining a looser control than the more centralized French authority of later on.
 
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Was England significantly involved in the Albigensian Crusade? I knew Aragon backed the House of Toulouse but I didn't think England played much of a part.

Not to the extent of Aragon certainly but they did support diplomaticaly and possibly financialy the House of Toulouse.

During the first phases of the war some very significants lieutenants of the english kings in Aquitaine served as mercenary commanders under the Counts of Toulouse and against Montfort, many gascons veterans who fought in english forces did the same. To significant to be a coincidence.

At the Council of Lateran their ambassador where the only ones who supported Raymond VI against Montfort and almost certainly provided significant funds afterward, who played a crucial role in the first phases of Raymond VII war of reconquest.

Latter on they almost marched against Louis VIII of France and the Royal Crusade, threteaning to cut their lines of supplies. The Papacy needed to use all its use influence in England at the time to prevent it.

In 1242 Raymond VII allied himself with England to breack France, allow the english to take back all of Aquitaine and the Occitans to quash the Treaty of Paris in 1229. Where it not for the stupidity of the Counts of La Marche, who revolted to early and allerted the French king before the coalised where ready, it might very well have worked instead of ending up with english defeat at Taillebourg.

The english didnt fight side by side with the occitans but that's pretty much the only thing the aragonese did that they didnt.
 
The Anglo-Portuguese relations where historically strong even with I think a marriage and alliance back then, as for the Occitans, probably the fact a foreign language would be enforced on them, like with what had happened with the French.

For the Occitan its probably a mental mix up between the Albigensian crusades where, in fire and blood, the french destroyed the truly independant state (if not dejure most definitely defacto). During the albigensian crusades the english did their best to prevent the destruction of the Toulousain state, without success.

Admitedly, they are two different conflicts but both the Hundred years wars and the english support of the house of Toulouse where both caused by franco-english rivalries in Aquitaine so the mix-up is understandable. That being said, the political destiny had already been decided since a long time at the beguining of the Hundred Years wars.

Was England significantly involved in the Albigensian Crusade? I knew Aragon backed the House of Toulouse but I didn't think England played much of a part.

As far as Aquitaine is concerned, the Plantagenets were distant rulers, maintaining a looser control than the more centralized French authority of later on.

Didn't several of the Plantagenets speak Occitan as their native tongue?

Not to the extent of Aragon certainly but they did support diplomaticaly and possibly financialy the House of Toulouse.

During the first phases of the war some very significants lieutenants of the english kings in Aquitaine served as mercenary commanders under the Counts of Toulouse and against Montfort, many gascons veterans who fought in english forces did the same. To significant to be a coincidence.

At the Council of Lateran their ambassador where the only ones who supported Raymond VI against Montfort and almost certainly provided significant funds afterward, who played a crucial role in the first phases of Raymond VII war of reconquest.

Latter on they almost marched against Louis VIII of France and the Royal Crusade, threteaning to cut their lines of supplies. The Papacy needed to use all its use influence in England at the time to prevent it.

In 1242 Raymond VII allied himself with England to breack France, allow the english to take back all of Aquitaine and the Occitans to quash the Treaty of Paris in 1229. Where it not for the stupidity of the Counts of La Marche, who revolted to early and allerted the French king before the coalised where ready, it might very well have worked instead of ending up with english defeat at Taillebourg.

The english didnt fight side by side with the occitans but that's pretty much the only thing the aragonese did that they didnt.


Actually, not just the Occitans that allied with English, the Catalans also like the English as well...I noticed that the Occitans never liked the Capetians save for the Valois-Anjou,Rene of Anjou to be precise..

Actually not just the Gascons and the Tolsans that like the english but the Provençal and Catalans like them as well - the problem is that the Occitans chose to let the Capetians win in the Hundred Years war..
 
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Actually, not just the Occitans that allied with English, the Catalans also like the English as well...I noticed that the Occitans never liked the Capetians save for the Valois-Anjou,Rene of Anjou to be precise..

Actually not just the Gascons and the Tolsans that like the english but the Provençal and Catalans like them as well - the problem is that the Occitans chose to let the Capetians win in the Hundred Years war..

By the Hundred years war Occitania was actually pretty well integrated in France and very few where still holding grudges from the albigensian crusade. They contributate more then willingly to french military efforts and where instrumental in their victory.

Its only during the 18th and 19th centuries that historical research and the romantic curent made people lock back to the albigensian crusade again and wonder what could have been. Of course, in an intelectual world dominated by first enlightment and then liberalism the status of pre-crusade Occitania as a haven of religious tolerance (witch is why they got targeted by the crusade in the first place, the papacy considered that only the dispossesion of the locals princes could create an environement where the destruction of catharism would be possible) also did wonders for the reputation of the old tolosan state and therefore created resentment toward those who destroyed it that can still somewhat be seen today.
 
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