Why are hordes of screaming disorganized warriors (barbarians) terrifying even to war veterans?

Griffith

Banned
Inspired from my thread about the myth of Roman legion superiority (and I will repeat an incident I posted there).

Years ago I've read on the Battle of Allia and apparently a major cause of defeat was the fact that the Gauls were yelling out terrifying war screams that played a major role in breaking the Roman Phalanx. However this was before the Marian reforms and was at a time when the Romans were farmer-soldiers so this did not surprise me.

However I also read years after the Marian reforms, when the Roman Legions were confronted with the Gauls and other "Barbarians" there are descriptions of Roman soldiers shaking in fear at the initial phases of the battle when the Barbarians were yelling out their fierce war cries. In some cases Roman Legions were paralyzed according to various stuff on the internet that they cannot move or maintain ranks.

I am curious what makes hordes of screaming Barbarians so scary to even train soldiers like the Romans? Modern military standards would consider the thoughts of fearing an enemy force simply because it screams and yells so much as a mark of poor discipline!

Its not just Ancient Warfare. I have read of the "Rebel Yell" that the Confederate Infantry would use. Granted they were trained and organized as opposed to the Barbarian Hordes, but I'm really amused why Union soldiers would be terrified of this tactic well in fact more dangerous things were taking place like bullets were being fired.

So what make warscreams so scary that they could lower morale and even make entire units collapse?
 
However I also read years after the Marian reforms, when the Roman Legions were confronted with the Gauls and other "Barbarians" there are descriptions of Roman soldiers shaking in fear at the initial phases of the battle when the Barbarians were yelling out their fierce war cries. In some cases Roman Legions were paralyzed according to various stuff on the internet that they cannot move or maintain ranks.

What are the battles in question or what was the timeframe given? The army of the Late Republic is very different from the army of the 3rd Century.

I am curious what makes hordes of screaming Barbarians so scary to even train soldiers like the Romans? Modern military standards would consider the thoughts of fearing an enemy force simply because it screams and yells so much as a mark of poor discipline!

Again what is the timeframe. The roman army of the late Empire had a very loose discipline while the army of the early Empire and of the Republic was very harsh on discipline.

Its not just Ancient Warfare. I have read of the "Rebel Yell" that the Confederate Infantry would use. Granted they were trained and organized as opposed to the Barbarian Hordes, but I'm really amused why Union soldiers would be terrified of this tactic well in fact more dangerous things were taking place like bullets were being fired.

So what make warscreams so scary that they could lower morale and even make entire units collapse?

You are part of a unit. You were trained for a couple of weeks and given weapons and sent to the front lines. First battle you find yourself fighting a bunch of madmen that are screaming like there is no tomorrow and you have no idea of what if happening around you. You get scarred and run. The guy next to you does the same and the domino effect begins.
 

longsword14

Banned
@Griffith
We mostly tend to see armies as units on a map, with little description about soldiers as a whole.
Romans had a fairly organised method of conducting war, but considering its military needs there were not enough experienced men to be everywhere.
There is also the raw recruits vs veteran recruit debate, about what it means to be a veteran. It is not necessary to believe that a single man in a line is capable of overcoming the fear of death or maiming by virtue of his experience alone. What veterans seem to have however is an ability to not turn into cattle; i.e. a veteran could rally back from stiff opposition and get back in for another plunge; a green man would back away and not return, or he would have little reason to obey command while he panics.

So, part of the reason is that a person who is on the receiving end of a technologically similar enemy tends not to be too confident because he is only one cog in the machine, unlike somebody higher up in the hierarchy, he cannot tell how the battle flows at a glance. He has to make do with what he faces. Combine it with tha fact that no human likes to die, veteran or not, there would definitely be instances where even a veteran army would be worried because it could have been demoralised by disease, marches etc, also remember that the 'barbarians' themselves were not cuddly animals.
 
Disciplined soldiers - it's not that soldiers don't fear, it's that they don't give in to fear. They keep ranks.

Loud war shouts, etc., ARE very effective at instilling fear in your enemy, and instilling bravery in your fellow warrior. Especially with 'warrior's, this is important. With 'soldiers' (disciplined troops), it's far less important.

Like 'bravery' isn't about not feeling fear, it's about not giving in to it.
 
Its not just Ancient Warfare. I have read of the "Rebel Yell" that the Confederate Infantry would use. Granted they were trained and organized as opposed to the Barbarian Hordes, but I'm really amused why Union soldiers would be terrified of this tactic well in fact more dangerous things were taking place like bullets were being fired.

Who says the "barbarians" were any less trained and organised than the Southern rebels? I think this is one of the problems of history or rather historical interpretation in that because certain people did not leave us records of doing something we assume they did not do it. However while there is some evidence that certain nations organised around the personal followings of great men these personal followings often trained together and do show evidence as moving to a common plan and central direction from leaders more senior than their own.

Remember the lead Gauls at Allia would have their professional warriors who would likely have had just as much grasp of disciplined movements as the Zulus represented above. Indeed if you accept the theory this was a force of mercenaries on its way to take part in one of the conflicts going on south of Rome they may have all been professional warriors.

So what make warscreams so scary that they could lower morale and even make entire units collapse?

The thing is as anyone who has been to a large concert or sports match or even just a large gathering loud noise generated by sufficient people can be felt physically.

Basically it comes down to instinct, people yelling at you are scary. It gets more scary the more there are and less scary the more you can rely on the people around you.

PS the Zulus are a militia of farmer soldiers in the time frame of the movie, so too are the Boers, militias of farmer-soldiers can be scary. Militias of shop keeper soldiers can be pretty fearsome too with enough enough discipline and training.
 
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